Welcome to The Librarian Is In, The New York Public Library's podcast about books, culture, and what to read next.

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Happy New Episode Day! We're BACK BABY!

Frank is joined by new co-host, Crystal Chen. She is a Young Adult Librarian working in the Woodstock Library. Longtime listeners might remember Crystal's appearance on a previous episode. She's back and ready to join Frank in discussions about books, culture, library school, and, on occassion, ASMR!

Frank's book pick this week was from a listener who handwrote him a letter last year. Sadly, because of the pandemic and the world coming to a halt, Frank only discovered that letter last week! But, Frank picked up the book and *LOVED* it. 

The Waitress Was New by Dominique Fabre, translated from the French by Jordan Stump

Crystal's first pick for the podcast was a graphic novel:

The Magic Fish by Trung Le Nguyen 

And before they sign off for the week, Crystal gives Frank a mini-ASMR quiz! Can you guess the object before Frank does?

Next week Frank and Crystal tackle their first book club pick together. Be sure to read it in time for their discussion:

All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque 

Tell us what everybody's talking about in your world of books and libraries! Suggest Hot Topix(TM)! Send an email or voice memo to podcasts[at]nypl.org.

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Transcript

[Music]

[Frank] Hello and welcome to The Librarian Is In, the New York Public Library's podcast about books, culture, and what to read next. I'm Frank and big day, little nervous, definitely excited. Rhonda is no longer here. She's doing the good work at Schomburg and there's a new co-host for The Librarian Is In. And so I'm really, like I said, nervous but excited to introduce Crystal Chen. Hey, Crystal.

[Crystal] Hi, Frank.

[Frank] Are you nervous too?

[Crystal] A little bit, I guess. Yeah.

[Frank] Yeah. Well, good.

[Crystal] Well, good. Okay.

[Frank] I mean, I want to be totally aligned with everything. We have to agree on everything, we have to be completely in sync, we have to be a body of librarianship that will inspire and excite and challenge everyone who listens.

[Crystal] So we have to be as one. Yes, I'm into this.

[Frank] Oh, my God. Well, and it's like getting to know you.

[Crystal] Yeah.

[Frank] You know? [Drilling sounds] I mean, it will be like a getting to know you. Oh! [Drilling sounds] See! There's construction. I'm in Jefferson Market Library and we are under construction. And I must say, the producer will let us know if it gets too crazy and if I have to somewhere, but there was a Twitter comment on a picture of Jefferson Market on Twitter that, from one of our listeners, one of your listeners now, Crystal, who said she liked the sounds of construction she heard because it made her miss New York. I guess she's left New York.

[Crystal] Awe.

[Frank] Or wasn't in New York. So I was like, that is a nice thing to say that someone enjoyed it, our little drilling in the background because it is very New York. Always under construction. So, Crystal, what should I ask you first that would best introduce you to your new listener viewership public listeners? Well, why don't you set the pace? Tell us something about you that we should know.

[Crystal] I won't start too far back. I won't be like, oh, I was born however many years ago in a small hospital in China wherever. I am a teen librarian at the Woodstock branch up in Central Bronx. And to give people an idea of sort of my career here at NYPL, I think I've been with NYPL for I want to say like eight-ish years at this point. I started at the Hamilton Grange Library branch, which is at West 145th Street, and then I moved to the Muhlenberg branch in Chelsea, so I've kind of jumped around a bit and then I was able to get that library trainee position when I went to school for librarianship. And then, ended up at Woodstock and I've been here ever since and it's been like a really great experience, yeah.

[Frank] Wow. So you don't even know how long -- is that a good thing if you don't know how long you've been in the system?

[Crystal] Time has passed very weirdly and fast.

[Frank] I guess you're focusing on now.

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] And don't look back like I often do because I know I've been in the library hmm it'll be -- ooh, wow, 29 years.

[Crystal] That is amazing.

[Frank] I was a baby when I started. So Woodstock. I started in the Bronx, actually, at the Soundview Library. Shout out to Soundview! And I loved it. And then worked my way into where I am now. But that is very -- did you choose young adult services? Were you always passionate about that?

[Crystal] I kind of fell into it. Like I knew for certain I did not want to work for children's services because I was like I'm not down with storytime. That is a lot of like acting and presenting that I didn't feel comfortable with. But everything else I was good with. And then I, you know, the Hamilton Grange Library has this like really excellent teen floor that I call like a teen center. I was able to work with Katrina Ortega and it was such a great experience that I really sort of a discovered a passion for that and with working with teenagers. And so I kind of stuck with it. I find it to be pretty rewarding, although I have rarely seen a teen at this point because of the pandemic.

[Frank] Right.

[Crystal] But, yeah.

[Frank] I'm always amazed at specialty choices in the library world because I always say and have said before in this like teens are like the hardest group to deal with is like the common lore, especially for an adult librarian, which I am. But yet, obviously, you don't think so and enjoy it. Because you have to do book talks too, which is sort of like performing to sell a book.

[Crystal] Yes. I think in like a kind of professional book talk it's more kind of thought out, you write it out and you kind of memorize or I have a little trick which is like tape it to the back of the book so I can read it if I have to. But my normal book talking I feel like is closer to doing sales pitches, which is something I've done before where I just try to integrate into conversation with teens. So if they're talking about sports, I'm like, hey, here's a really good sports read that I read maybe you'll be interested in. So it's a lot more casual. I think those are more effective. But I do feel like teens oftentimes are kind of underserved like we invest a lot in our kids, we invest a lot in our adult patrons, but sort of like when you think about it, what happens to those kids? They grow up to be teens and then those teens become our adults. We don't want to neglect that demographic because it's really important.

[Frank] Absolutely.

[Crystal] Yeah.

[Frank] I always feel anxiety with kids, teens. They're adorable and I love interacting with them but I feel the anxiety of like, I could like make or break their childhood a little bit too much. But like giving the right book at the right time and I feel like I can be much more relaxed with adults. But, hey, you know, to each his own there.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] What was I going to say? I was going to say something, but I can't remember. Oh! But like doing a storytime for children is like doing a one-person Broadway show. I mean, it's like singing, gestures, --

[Crystal] Yes!

[Frank] -- reading, talk -- I mean, and then you've got toddlers like, you know, toddling behind you while you're trying to do the storytime. It's like a lot of work. I've talked to children librarians and they are like, you know, they're gearing up in the back like shaking out their hands and getting ready to get on, and then after it's over it's like they're schvitzing, you know? I mean, it's like a lot of work, so. But we all find out place. I think that is the important part. So hi, Crystal. I guess we have books to discuss.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] I could say, I don't know, I want to talk more about just you and just get to know -- [inaudible] like getting to know you. It's like a relationship like an arranged marriage in a way. It's like to be strange about it, but it's like I almost was going to introduce you as my -- what is it? My future ex-girlfriend. Because it's like so many people have left me!

[Crystal] I know!

[Frank] Gwen and Rhonda.

[Crystal] I know.

[Frank] How much more can I take? Am I that horrible? But, you know, hey, that is life.

[Crystal] Do you want me to talk about my like library school? Because I used to go to the 14th Street Pratt Institute campus, which is very close to Jefferson Market.

[Frank] Yes. Actually, when I started library school at Pratt, it was all in Brooklyn.

[Crystal] Oh!

[Frank] But at the very end of my library schooling they started classes at 14th Street, which is interesting, but I mostly went in Brooklyn. Why? Do you have Jefferson Market Library stories?

[Crystal] Well, I do have friends who are very obsessed with Jefferson Market.

[Frank] Really?

[Crystal] Yes. They love it. They tell me all about it.

[Frank] This is the kind of thing I like to hear.

[Crystal] When you went to the Brooklyn campus was that like still full of cats? Because I have not gone there, but I have heard that there's a lot of stray cats on that campus, which I regret not being able to go to that campus.

[Frank] I don't remember that. The library was incredibly beautiful and still is, but I don't remember the cats. That is so interesting.

[Crystal] Supposedly. I've only gone to the 14th Street one, which is just like one building and that is where all the library school stuff was happening.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Crystal] And, actually, Rhonda is teaching there now, which is kind of fantastic.

[Frank] She is?

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] Did I know that?

[Crystal] I don't know.

[Frank] What is --

[Crystal] But she's teaching there and one of -- somebody I know is like in her class and she's having a great experience and I'm just like this is fantastic. I love it.

[Frank] You know, it's like I had to get to know her and I got to know her and I loved her as I did Gwen. And, of course, they both left because they're librarians and they have responsibilities and I have none. I, you know, choose not to. But that is -- I can imagine her being [drilling sounds] a very good teacher.

[Crystal] Yeah. For sure.

[Frank] Very soothing. [Drilling sounds] There's some drilling. But that is cool. What does she teach? Do you know?

[Crystal] I'm not sure. I've just heard good things about it.

[Frank] Oh [inaudible].

[Crystal] Yeah. But there's like a few other teachers. Like, do you know Kyle Triplett who is in their rare book division?

[Frank] Oh, yeah.

[Crystal] He also teaches there. I took his class and it was like really fantastic. Yeah.

[Frank] You know, you just reminded me. I'm going to throw it down because we've talked about it. Like we used to interview interesting people from around the system.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] It became a scheduling difficulty, as you could imagine, but I think, you know, on special occasions we're definitely going to revisit visiting some New York Public Library librarians from around the system.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] Because we did interview someone from rare books. Andrew Inman [phonetic]. And it was so fascinating. And we even also got a tour with Meredith Mann of some of the objects and manuscripts that rare books has like Virginia Woolf's walking stick and the Mary Poppins parrot head umbrella.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] You know, things like that. So I think we should do that and --

[Crystal] They have like the Gutenberg Bible too. I think I touched it.

[Frank] Did you? What did you think?

[Crystal] I was like, this is a really old book. Am I allowed to touch this? But, apparently, yes.

[Frank] Probably not but you did. Alright.

[Crystal] No, we were allowed to touch things.

[Frank] Really?

[Crystal] It was kind of interesting because they talked about how or Kyle talked about how like you kind of imagine a lot in the movies when you're working with rare books, you're wearing those like white gloves but that is actually something that is like not great because you're not very sensitive to your fingers and they will snag on pages and maybe break things. And so it's just like bare washed hands and then you can touch things.

[Frank] Oh!

[Crystal] Yeah.

[Frank] How interesting! That is a fun fact I wouldn't have thought of.

[Crystal] Yeah.

[Frank] I love it. Did you go visit as like just as part of your life or were you there for a class?

[Crystal] Well, that is something I really appreciated about Kyle's class. And I also took a class with Ken Soehner who is like the chief librarian at the Watson Library at The Met. And they do both their classes there's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff where you can visit a lot of libraries. So I went not only to NYPL and to like the two Met libraries, there was also The Morgan Library, Grolier Club, a few other places at the SVA Library and they were really fun experiences.

[Frank] School for the Visual Arts. There was a point in my career where I thought I really had fantasies about working in the Berg collection at the 42nd Street Library, which is like the American and English literature collection where Virginia Woolf's stuff is and all that. And I didn't. It sort of relates to the book I read, but I didn't. And the reason I'm stuttering is because I actually don't really know why. I think I certainly do love public service like on the public branch neighborhood community level and not sort of -- I mean, I don't think it's rarified but not being a curator or a librarian behind the scenes more, but which makes me think like the choices we make, whether we know we make them or not like do you believe in that statement of like there are no choiceless moments? Do you always think you have a choice? Getting philosophical here [inaudible].

[Crystal] I mean, I do think that sometimes like you're meant to go on a path that is maybe unexpected and sometimes you say no to things and, you know, that kind of leads to other things that are maybe more suited to you. So I, yeah.

[Frank] Did you ever read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl?

[Crystal] Nuh-uh.

[Frank] I talked about that on the podcast so obviously you didn't listen. But it's just its ongoing quest for l'existence as they say in France.

[Crystal] Yes. Uh-huh.

[Frank] Which also relates to the book I read, but I'm just going to tease that out for you. But I guess we should get to books. I actually feel like just talking to you. It's really just like getting to know you. Probably should -- oh, well, we can't. I was going to say we should have had coffee or something and like we don't really do that yet.

[Crystal] I have coffee. What do you mean?

[Frank] I mean, coffee in person.

[Crystal] Oh, in person.

[Frank] But then, I realized we don't do in-person yet.

[Crystal] No. No, no. Not yet.

[Frank] But we will eventually, I suppose. It's interesting, I just, again, just switching gears. I sent out an email for a literature class that Jefferson Market is going to host on Elena Ferrante and Elsa Morante about coming of age in Italy with a great professor from Hunter. And, you know, like I have an email list now, which I never had before times, which I never just had because I just thought organic, in-person, that is how you get people to come to programs. That is what I believe. But now, I have an email list and I got an email from someone I know in the community who was like, great idea for a program, Frank, I'm just so tired of staring at a screen. I just don't want to do it. And I was so heartened by that. I was just like, we will come back, we will gather, and I don't have to feel so guilty for not doing 10 million online programs. Because I know some librarians are doing such great stuff and so much of it and I realize I have a philosophical difference sometimes about using a computer. My eyes sometimes are just like gyrating because I'm staring at a screen all the time.

[Crystal] Yeah.

[Frank] But I don't know. How do you feel about that?

[Crystal] I mean, the digital space is just not the same. Like I think there's this kind of idea. I forget the person who originated the idea but the idea of the library as this third space, which is like the first is your home, the second is like your work, and the library is that other thing where you spend so much of your time in life in and I know many patrons who are like that, teens as well, you know? And I think we try in different ways to mimic that with the digital problems and in some ways, we are really successful and we can reach a lot of different kinds of people and these kind of geographic boundaries are broken down, but in other ways, like it's just not the same.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Crystal] And I think we do recognize that. And I do look forward to like all the in-person stuff, especially for teenagers. I think they really need that kind of interaction. Uh-huh.

[Frank] Yeah. Alright, I'm really happy to hear that. I feel like I have a little bond with you now like a little -- we're getting closer and closer. Because I think it will be somewhat of a mix of offerings when things settle down in terms of digital and in-person programming. I think digital might be here in some fashion in terms of programming.

[Crystal] Yeah.

[Frank] But I love that you said that because I think the core of what we do is that in-person connection. Just talking even at the desk about books or hanging out with the teens and, you know, getting them excited about things.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] So, good. Alright, I guess I can move on now. Thank you. I like how you're the new one and I'm just like having to work through my emotions. Like I think I'm forcing you into the therapist position if you don't mind.

[Crystal] I like it. We'll get a couch for you next time.

[Frank] Oh. Oh! Alright. [Singsong] Falling in love again. Oh! I get to sing even though Crystal doesn't like musicals.

[Crystal] I don't.

[Frank] This will make me sing even more [inaudible] --

[Crystal] But maybe you'll get me to like them at some point.

[Frank] That is all I can ask for. We're going to have to work out a routine every time. So I guess we should get to books. That is what the Librarian Is In is about. Do you want to do the honors about telling me what you read or do you want me to go first? Do you have a pref?

[Crystal] You can go first.

[Frank] Oh. Age before beauty? Is that what you're trying to say, dear?

[Crystal] You're more experienced in this.

[Frank] Age before beauty.

[Crystal] I can like pick up some tips from you.

[Frank] Tips. You don't need tips. Well, alright, I have a good story. I think it's a good story that sort of prefaces the book I read. Alright. As you know, I've been puttering around Jefferson Market, my library, in Greenwich Village, and we're under renovation coincidentally with also the pandemic so we've been closed for a while. And as I putter around, I found one of those like those white postal bins filled with mail. Like, you know, you get a bulk mail and it's in those plastic thingamajigs. And I hadn't seen it before and it was sort of slightly covered with dust. It was mail that was delivered that the superintendent I guess took in after we had shut down a year ago, more than a year ago. And I was going through the mail and I found a letter addressed to me from last year. A year ago. And I was like, okay, and I opened it up and it was from a listener of The Librarian Is In. So this is a year ago. If you're out there listening, I hope you're still listening. I'm going to write her back because I have to. And I love that she wrote a letter. That she put pen to paper. And she's got great handwriting. But it just says, hi, Frank, hello, Frank. I discovered The Librarian Is In just a few months ago. I'm so sorry to hear that your on-air partnership is ending. That was Gwen.

[Crystal] Oh!

[Frank] That was before Rhonda even started. You two are lovely together and I could listen to you dissect books forever. So take note, Crystal. I never got poetry until the episode in which you read a poem to the punctuation, which is such a great compliment that she got poetry from something I read. And then she goes on to say how she now loves Ariel by Sylvia Plath, which I know you've read, Crystal.

[Crystal] I love that one. Yes.

[Frank] Yeah, me too. We should maybe talk about that.

[Crystal] I think Medusa was my favorite poem. Yeah.

[Frank] Oh, really?

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] It is on the 125 Books We Love list. So she continues saying she listens and she's inspired by our heart and insight, which is just so lovely. So thank you. And then, she says, I have a book recommendation for you. And she says, the book is The Waitress was New by Dominique Fabre. French author.

[Crystal] Okay.

[Frank] F-A-B-R-E. Translated from the French by Jordan Stump. And then, she says, it's both small in stature and in pages. I found it touching in its simplicity. When I read it, I thought, I bet Frank would like this book. So wonderfully sweet. I discovered this letter a year later. It's like something poignant about that. Like mail, you know, that gets lost that she did something tactile and she put pen to paper and took the time to write something to me and then gave me a book recommendation. So guess what I read? I read The Waitress was New by Dominique Fabre. I guess you could say it in English.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] But Fabre, F-A-B-R-E in French. And it's translated by Jordan Stump. Listener, if you're listening still after a year of me not getting back to you, I hope you are because I loved this book. I really did. And you were so right. I mean, sometimes people know you better than you know yourself. It is a book that is directly up my alley and, Crystal, I guess you'll get to know what that alley is in that it's poignant and beautiful and it makes elegies out of the quotidian day-to-day things that people do just to get by and exist and live in this world and always questions of existential nature that I am preoccupied with. And it's just beautiful. It's short, as she said, as the listener had said in her letter, but yet so powerful. I read it in one session. And I just went right through it. And it's from the point of view of this bartender named Pierre who is 56 years old and it's in his voice. He's sort of like, you know, working-class bartender, not the bartender who is maybe going to be an artist or a actor or something but like a career bartender who is in this small cafe. And they have a lot of French neighborhoods that I don't know about, but when we were talking before about the school being on 14th Street Pratt and things like that it made me think how we just we do define ourselves sometimes by the neighborhoods in which we live, work, go to school, go to the library. And it's in his voice from the first person. Sometimes he talks to himself in the third person. But it's almost as if it's a "regular" in quotes person's voice filtered maybe through an artistic vision of the author. I mean, I wish we could all talk as articulately, but yet there are colloquialisms and sort of elisions that we have in real life. And, you know, -- where do I go with this? It's that he -- the predominant thing when he talks about his life and what happens is that sometimes it trails off, which is very human and very poignant. Like, for example, he's talking about a relationship, his last relationship that ended three years before the book takes place at 56, he's 56 years old. And he ends up after discussing his relationship saying, well, you know, she did this and this and it sort of got on my nerves and I couldn't take it anymore but I tried the best. We both tried the best. And he's like, at least I think so. And it's so commonplace but yet that sort of, at least I think so, is sort of that very human thing of how you tell your story, how you tell you narrative. Like, yes, I did the best I could in that relationship. But when he said, at least I think I did. Like, it's sort of that questioning of like, I don't know. I don't know why it didn't work. I don't know really maybe why it didn't work. And I value that introspection. So, anyway, Pierre is this bartender and the waitress is out sick. And so there's a new waitress who comes in. And the book is called The Waitress was New, but that waitress doesn't really figure into the book story, the rest of the book. And I was thinking, well, I wonder why he called it The Waitress was New. It's almost as if the newness of the waitress is a sort of jumping-off point for Pierre to ponder his life. Like you know when something changes in your day-to-day routine you might sort of go off on a tangent of thought about yourself and stuff like that maybe. But, anyway, the original waitress, Sabrina, is out sick and then there's a new waitress. And then the boss doesn't come in and the boss's wife, who runs the cafe, is sort of agitated and you sort of think maybe the boss is having an affair with the waitress who called out sick. Is she really sick? And Pierre is fussing about that. He doesn't know what he thinks about that. He's sort of put in charge of the place with the cook, Amedee, and this new waitress is trying to get through the day and make it happen with his boss being out. And then, it talks about he thinks about the nature of what it's like to have a boss and when the boss has emotional issues, which clearly, he does and he's like, well, he's the boss. He's having a crisis. Maybe he's having a midlife crisis that I had 10 years ago and now I'm beyond that. So he goes -- that is the plot but it's not very plot-driven if you want to talk about those points that we talk about about how to get into a book. It's very character and in his voice. Like, let me give you an example. I mean, there's so many parts I could read but like I love how it's written in that -- it sort of is written like thought in that when you're thinking or just -- when you're daydreaming or just at work and someone just really got in your face and said, what are you thinking? And you had to remember and articulate it, I think we'd all be very surprised what we were exactly thinking.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] Like you might be very happily, you know, inputting a book into the computer or responding to an email but then if someone said, what are you thinking? You might be like, you know, actually, really what I was thinking was when I went to the beach last year and I hurt my foot. Like that was on your mind. You know what I mean?

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] And so, there's lots of moments like that where -- let's see. Well, [inaudible]. Yeah, Pierre is thinking about the boss. That the boss has gone missing and wondering if he is having the affair and then the wife is upset. And so he's thinking, "An hour later everything was back to normal for me. Although I really wished he was here (the boss), because I hadn't had time to fix myself a proper breakfast. Things got a lot slower at 9:00. Some low clouds moved in and put a stop to the drizzle. And then, when it started up again, you could see the rain falling diagonally over the tracks. It was settling in for the day. I was right to put on my sweater. The seasons were changing for sure. I hadn't time to go look at the Seine, which had been one of my pleasures in life since I came back to the fold of my neighborhood 15 years ago. I'd find a moment for that on Sunday or maybe some other day. I didn't know. Don't get too close to the edge, Piero. Yes, ma, I know. Bye." And then he thinks about the boss again. And I'm getting goose pimples because what that is is he's thinking about the boss, then he's thinking about he didn't have breakfast, then he's thinking about, oh, I didn't see the Seine, the river, and I love the river, and then he has a quick memory of his mother. That is his mother saying, don't get too close to the edge. And yes. And then it end. It doesn't even indicate this is a memory, this is not, you know, what's happening but you get it. And I love that. It's a flash. And you do get flashes of the mother. It seems that Pierre was adopted and he was in foster families and yet nothing is made of that. The thing that makes it so poignant is that Pierre is not self-pitying and there is no indication by the author that you should feel he's tragic.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] That you should feel sorry for him or it's not written that way but it's the -- if any pity is there, it's pity for ourselves and other human beings in our day-to-day existence. When we feel loneliness, when we feel wondering like I asked before choices we've made and did we have a choice and then why did I make that choice and not remembering. Ultimately, and I said this before on the podcast because, of course, this listener knew what I like, it ponders the existence of, do we even know what's happening to us? Like, do we even know? Can we make meaning of our lives?

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] Can we say here's my narrative. I'm Pierre and this is my story. And this is Pierre and this is his story but yet it's not always clear what that story is because he doesn't know. And it is from his point of view. He admits he doesn't know. And so then I thought I felt very -- it was a rainy day when I read this so I was in my glory feeling like oh [French accent] l'existence and looking out the window and wondering what is it all about? And just thinking, [French accent] oh, Frank, what choices have you made [inaudible] and I was feeling good about -- I like that feeling but it was also it was sad. I felt sad. And then I thought, why read books like this, Frank? And then I thought, it's because -- and this is where the sadness or tears come and it's not a bad thing is that attention was paid to a marginal you could say peripheral character. Maybe we're all peripheral. Someone, when you walk down the street, is, you know, digging a ditch and you're thinking, that guy has a life? But I'm wrapped up in my own. And just the attention paid to someone who is not big and shiny.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] And maybe that is what we all want, just attention for a minute.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] Well, maybe that is getting personal. Please pay attention to me! That is why I do this podcast. But that is what it was. It was attention was paid to Pierre. And I found that very, very moving. And thank you, I won't say her name, but I hope you know who you are and I hope you still listen because this was a wonderful recommendation. And a year later, I finally got your letter and was able to read this book and I cherish that. So thank you, listener, for The Waitress was New by Dominique Fabre. Top that, kid!

[Crystal] I love that. I love your description of it. I feel like -- I mean, now I definitely have to read this book.

[Frank] There is an e-book in the library.

[Crystal] Oh, very nice. I love e-books. I think those are the books that like really are the ones that kind of resonate with me are the ones that are really good about describing sometimes this kind of indescribable quality of life, you know? Like certain moments that we all kind of live through and experience but don't often get like a lot of attention on it. So I really appreciated that.

[Frank] Oh!

[Crystal] And I'm also definitely somebody who enters books through like character moments and not plot. So like the fact that there's no plot I'm like, hey, I'm okay with that.

[Frank] Oh! [Singsong] Getting to know you. Getting to know all about -- oh, that is cool. Okay, nice to know. Thank you.

[Crystal] But that sounds lovely so I'm going to put that on my to-be-read list.

[Frank] Oh.

[Crystal] My very long to-be-read list.

[Frank] Thanks, Crystal.

[Crystal] Yeah. And I do hope that listener is listening.

[Frank] I know! Isn't that a great story?

[Crystal] If not --

[Frank] I'm definitely going to write her back.

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] And I'm going to write her back -- I hope she's at the same address, but with a Jefferson Market card with a picture of Jefferson Market, of course.

[Crystal] If you can't find her, I'll use my detective skills and help you find her.

[Frank] Well, we are librarians. I guess we have search capabilities. Okay. I'll let you know. But I just love that whole story. I love meaning like that.

[Crystal] Yeah.

[Frank] Like she suggested a book after a year of being locked down and I found it and read it, so.

[Crystal] I think that is also this other part of reading that I love is being able to read a book and then find that kind of human connection not only with like another reader but with an author. I remember feeling that when I read like a long time ago Of Human Bondage.

[Frank] Mmm.

[Crystal] And I was like, wow, I like weirdly feel connected to this character and this book even though this book was written so long ago not by like a woman of color like myself and yet I was like, I feel this very human connection because this is a very human experience. And I kind of love that. I think that is the best part of reading, so.

[Frank] So you read Of Human Bondage. Who did you identify with? Mildred or the guy?

[Crystal] I think I identified with the guy if I'm thinking of the correct one.

[Frank] [inaudible] who is -- who had a club foot.

[Crystal] I think so, right?

[Frank] Like he had a -- yeah. I just know the movie. But Somerset Maugham wrote Of Human Bondage. He also wrote The Painted Veil.

[Crystal] I did not read that one.

[Frank] They're nothing alike, but I always confuse Graham Greene and Somerset Maugham. I love Graham Greene. Somerset Maugham wrote The Painted Veil and I love that book.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] But I have not read Of Human Bondage, but I've always wanted to. You! See?

[Crystal] You should read it.

[Frank] That is what I was going to say before when I was talking about your young adult specialty. You read like a madwoman from what I can gather. Like all across the board. You're also on the -- oh, no, you're not anymore.

[Crystal] On the poetry committee?

[Frank] I was going to say -- right. I always think of you that way.

[Crystal] Yes, I was.

[Frank] You were on the poetry committee.

[Crystal] Comics now.

[Frank] But now you're on the comics, graphic novels committee.

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] Okay. Anyway, I think it's thrilling and I love that you have such a breadth of reading that you can -- I love that you just shared that story. [Singsong] I'm getting to know her! Okay. Anyway, what did you read? Tell me, tell me, tell me.

[Crystal] Okay. So I read a lot of books and a lot of them are like really new books that aren't in our collection. So I kind of dialed it back and picked a little bit of an older book that I read and just to make sure that is something that is available in our collection for people. And so the one that I wanted to talk about was The Magic Fish by this artist, now writer, named Trungles. It's a comic book. I do read a lot of comics. And it is a young adult book but I do feel like it has a certain kind of resonance that teens would definitely feel it but I also feel like adults like myself will feel it too. So it's a pretty like simple story. So it's just a young boy who he realizes that he's gay but he doesn't know the word for gay in Vietnamese so he doesn't have the ability to kind of talk to his mom and his parents about it. And so that kind of like cultural disconnection is something that like for myself as a immigrant to the United States like I definitely feel that. And in it, like his friends are really supportive, his teacher is not, you know? And at a certain point, like the mom is like called into the office, they tell her and she has this other struggle, which is her primary language is Vietnamese so she also doesn't have this language to communicate like her love and acceptance to her son.

[Frank] Uh-huh.

[Crystal] And instead, they kind of form their own language through these fairytales that they're able to like share and tell each other. And the book goes through a series of these fairytales, which are beautifully drawn, like fantastically drawn. The artist Trungles, they're amazing. Like I went out a bought a pack of tarot cards that they had made too just because the art is like so fantastic.

[Frank] Wait, Trungles is a person or like a team?

[Crystal] It's a person, yes.

[Frank] Oh. Okay. Very cool.

[Crystal] But, yeah. But the art style is like if you've ever read those old Grimm fairytales. I remember I used to have this like giant book that was a tome, practically. And there were these really beautiful elaborate illustrations. I don't remember which edition that was but it's very much in that style, just a little bit like slightly more modernized like color washes and things like that. But so fantastic. And I think the book really talks about like using fairytales as this kind of new language for this young boy to like speak to his mother, for his mother to sort of convey her love and acceptance to her child, and to also talk about issues of displacement because she is somebody who was displaced from her home. And it made me really think about like my own family too, which is, you know, the kinds of books that resonate me really will remind me of certain things like will trigger these kinds of memories and I think in every family there's a different kind of language. Like for my family, the language of love was like food and it still is, right?

[Frank] Yeah.

[Crystal] And I think that is true for many families. Like that is how if my parents can't -- my mom particular if she can't convey like the words I love you it's always in like, are you eating? And I'm just like, well, I'm still alive, aren't I? So I am eating. It's been like two years.

[Frank] Or like the minute you see [inaudible] she's like are you hungry? You want something to eat?

[Crystal] Yes. Yes. That is, you know, that kind of language that we've built and I get these care packages where they like stuff with food that I can absolutely get here in New York. Like I'm a grown adult. But I recognize that as this kind of language of love and I know other people and there are other families who maybe their language of love is going on hiking trips, going fishing, like doing different activities. And so I think this book really talks about that in such a beautiful way, talks about issues of displacements, of cultural disconnection. Yeah, I love it so much. It's such a beautiful book.

[Frank] Are they Grimm's fairytales or are they created new fairytales for this book where they --

[Crystal] Ah. Good question. So I think some of the fairytales, I believe, are some I think Vietnamese folklore, but one of the things that the book does do is that there is this particular fairytale I think that involves mermaids and oftentimes in the fairytale the mermaid dies, right? And I don't know if this is a -- is this a spoiler? Can I say it?

[Frank] Actually, what we do is you could say that here's a spoiler so stop listening if you don't want to hear it.

[Crystal] Okay.

[Frank] And then -- but go for it.

[Crystal] Here's a minor spoiler so stop listening if you don't want to hear it. But one of the ways that the mom what she does is she retells the story about this mermaid, but in the story, the mermaids has a happy ending and the mermaid doesn't die. And I think it's a way of saying like, you know, as a young gay child you will be able to grow and live a happy life and I think that was a really important way for her to kind of convey her like love to him.

[Frank] Awe.

[Crystal] And I think it was so beautifully done and he got it by hearing that fairytale. And then there's also this really like beautiful essay that is written in the back that like talks more about it. It's just such a lovely book that I think encapsulates so many different experiences that people have and I think necessary reading for a lot of young kids. Uh-huh.

[Frank] The Magic Fish?

[Crystal] The Magic Fish, yes.

[Frank] Trungles.

[Crystal] Oh and [inaudible] the artist's name he goes by Trung Le Nguyen is the --

[Frank] Oh.

[Crystal] -- yes. But the kind of I think like the artist working name I just say Trungles.

[Frank] Oh. The Magic Fish. And it's a graphic novel, a comic.

[Crystal] It's a graphic novel, yeah.

[Frank] Wow.

[Crystal] From Penguin Random House.

[Frank] I mean, I've talked about people who know who have listened to this know this too well that I love fairytales and mythology.

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] And one of the books that, you know, made a huge impact on me was Edith Hamilton's Mythology with those illustrations that I love so much that are it's still in print that kids still read and I still go back to it. Like sometimes I'm reading a book that has a classical element to it or at least, you know, even not intentionally I'll go back to read a myth that I think is related and I love that. Those stories, especially stories from around the world. That is why I was asking about like the fairytales that are told in this book, The Magic Fish, like are they western or, you know, from Vietnam and I love that because they all have relationships that are similar but yet culturally specific. So love it! And I love -- oh, you know you just hit on something else too because like what I find myself preoccupied and it sounds so rarified is art and artistic expression.

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] One of the things like my God if we're lucky enough to be able to feed ourselves and have a place to live, at least for me, you know, those basics, it's like my preoccupation with expression and art right now for the last year about how people do that and I feel like it's so beautiful and important. I don't have the words for it but I think as a manager of a library I want to help that. Like I feel like when we come back, I want to have a renewed commitment to artists.

[Crystal] I mean, it's the same thing. Like with reading I used to do a lot of art in my like former career and whatnot, but I think it's that thing of being able to stand in front of a piece of art and then just feel that connection like feeling like I hear what you as an artist are saying to me and having that moment, I think is really powerful. So there's many parallels I think between like art and reading.

[Frank] Should I ask about your former career or should we not [inaudible]? What is it?

[Crystal] Yeah, I mean I used to be a printmaker so I have a master's in like printmaking. And, hey, I love it, you know?

[Frank] You're a multiple degree getter, I can tell.

[Crystal] I also used to work at like the Whitney too and it was like a really great experience.

[Frank] Well, I'm going to like you. Oh, my God, Crystal! That is so incredible.

[Crystal] There's a Julie Mehretu show on at the Whitney right now. I'm a huge fan of Julie Mehretu. Yeah.

[Frank] Have you been back to a museum lately?

[Crystal] I'm not ready yet, but I will be soon.

[Frank] Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I'm sorry, did you finish talking about The Magic Fish? Because, of course, I went off about me.

[Crystal] No, I like that. No, I'm like pretty much done.

[Frank] Okay. Oh, I like that you like that.

[Crystal] We could talk forever about [inaudible].

[Frank] I thought I was going to hate you and I don't. I'm so happy I don't. Oh, Crystal!

[Crystal] You've heard the stories about me. Alright. Good to know.

[Frank] You're fabulous. I'm going to like this. Oh, we have a new day dawning at The Librarian Is In. Crystal and Frank.

[Crystal] Well, --

[Frank] Yeah. What?

[Crystal] -- well, you know, until I start doing my ASMR stuff, which I know you don't like.

[Frank] Oh! Alright, we might as well before we sign off -- well, let me just say because Crystal was a guest on The Librarian Is In and I have a feeling she's about to do or say something that she referred to in that episode way back, which you guys listening can listen to. But before that, whatever it may be, let me just say that Crystal and I for our next book we're going to still read from the, even though it was last year, the 125th anniversary of the New York Public Library was last year, and the library has, as you guys know, the 125 Books We Love list. And Crystal and I are going to read together for next time All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque. So it's a classic that I've never read and I want to. I think Crystal has, but she's going to revisit it. And I haven't. I love reading books that, one, technically should have read and then haven't and see how it resonates today. So we're going to read All Quiet on the Western Front and I hope you guys read it too. Alright, Crystal.

[Crystal] I'm very excited for that book.

[Frank] Good.

[Crystal] Because I read it as a part of my school curriculum and to be able to revisit it now will be a really interesting experience. I hope I like it as much as I liked it then, but things have changed so who knows.

[Frank] We'll see.

[Crystal] It's hard to say. Alright. So in our -- I'm really excited for this. I've been waiting.

[Frank] Alright.

[Crystal] And I know you're going to be so annoyed, which makes it even more exciting for me, actually.

[Frank] Oh! The dynamic begins. Okay.

[Crystal] So in our the guest podcast I was on, I talked about how I was trying to start this rival ASMR podcast, right? It never really happened. I have a lot of business ideas I never like get off the ground like Crown Cakes, my bakery, Bougie Books, my book-delivery service. That is a whole other story, right? And nobody trademark that because I still need to trademark it.

[Frank] Bougie.

[Crystal] So what I want to do is I'm going to turn, because we have our cameras on, I'm going to turn my camera off.

[Frank] Okay.

[Crystal] And I want you to guess what -- so people who, if you don't know, ASMR is something like I think it stands for auto-sensory meridian response. And so if you watch a lot of videos on YouTube, it's a lot of people [whispering] who are just like whispering and tapping and making like soft noises and it's supposed to be really relaxing for people. And I think it's pretty relaxing. So I have something, I'm going to make some noises with it, and I'm going to see if Frank can guess what it is.

[Frank] So I have to --

[Crystal] And hopefully -- yes.

[Frank] -- I have to guess what --

[Crystal] Yes. And you have to whisper, Frank.

[Frank] [Whispering] Okay. Oh, dear. I'm not a whisperer but I'll try. Okay.

[Crystal] It's going to be a challenge. Okay. [ Rumbling Sound ]

[Frank] Oh. I know what it is. [ Rumbling Sound ] It's a book.

[Crystal] Yes, Frank, but which book?

[Frank] At first, I thought it was -- I can't whisper. I'm a yeller. What do you mean which book?

[Crystal] That is the tricky part.

[Frank] Is it The Magic Fish? [ Rumbling Sound ] Or is it -- oh, how would I know? You crazy person.

[Crystal] Well, can't you tell it's kind of a short book by the length of the page flipping?

[Frank] Yes, actually. Is it a children's book?

[Crystal] No. So it's a book that actually just came on the hold shelf for me I'm super excited to read. It's called She of the Mountains by Vivek Shraya.

[Frank] Oh.

[Crystal] Look at it. Isn't it a pretty cover? People can't see it, but it's on camera right now. It's a very [inaudible].

[Frank] I'm glad we're now visual, we weren't for a while, because this has been lovely. [ Rumbling Sound ] You know, I'm not sure about this ASMR thing, but I love, love, love that you chose to do a book sound. At first, I thought it was your nails on like a counter because it sort of sounded like, you know, not too sharp nails on, you know, a surface.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] And then I heard the book. You know what? I think we got a good thing going here, Crystal.

[Crystal] I am growing my nails out so I can do more tapping [inaudible] future.

[Frank] No, I'm talking about you and me, not your nails.

[Crystal] Oh, okay.

[Frank] No [inaudible].

[Crystal] I'll have other objects for next time.

[Frank] So you're going to give us a little ASMR treat every episode?

[Crystal] Yeah, I think my goal is to eventually at some point convince you and Chrissy [assumed spelling] and Tara that this is going to be a full-on ASMR podcast just whispering all the time.

[Frank] Ulterior motive.

[Crystal] It may takes years.

[Frank] I think what might be a cool thing that at the end of every episode you could lead us out with something soothing or meditative like that, right?

[Crystal] Yeah. Did you find it relaxing though?

[Frank] That [inaudible].

[Crystal] Okay, that silence was way too long.

[Frank] No. Because I was more -- which I loved, I was more preoccupied with figuring out what the sound was so I was very active. I was very engaged. But if you had just done that over and over, I could imagine, yeah.

[Crystal] Okay.

[Frank] Did you know, -- alright. See this is what I love is that we can't stop -- or at least I can't stop talking. That I once posted on the library's Instagram about the plastic book covers we cover books in like library books that a lot of people love. They just seem so librarian. Somebody commented that the crinkling of the library book cover is the only thing that calms their baby down.

[Crystal] Ah, that may be. Yes.

[Frank] That they literally -- I have a paperback here, but that they'll sort of manipulate the crinkling of the plastic book cover for hardcovers, and the baby just gets calm.

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] That is right up your alley, right, is really what you're saying with --

[Crystal] Uh-huh.

[Frank] -- isn't that cool?

[Crystal] I think that is amazing.

[Frank] So another use for library books, people.

[Crystal] So I -- yes. And I'm hoping in the future you will be like that baby, Frank, and be calmed by the noises I make.

[Frank] Is your goal to like completely turn me into a very serene individual?

[Crystal] I think I can do it.

[Frank] Well, I'm half intrigued, half nervous. It's almost like, I don't know, invasion of the body snatchers. Like you're going to turn me into someone [inaudible] like, hi, I'm Frank. Welcome to the librarian museum.

[Crystal] Oh, my God. See that voice cadence is very ASMR like on YouTube. That is how they talk.

[Frank] Alright [inaudible].

[Crystal] I think you would be really good at this time.

[Frank] I [inaudible].

[Crystal] I think we have a good thing going.

[Frank] Well, --

[Crystal] And we can have like a side podcast where it's just ASMR.

[Frank] It's something I never anticipated. Talk about making choices. I never knew this choice would be put in front of me. Let's get The Librarian Is In going first darling before we move into ASMR. I am so happy and thrilled to have finally sat down with you and kick off the next era of The Librarian Is In. I didn't know you very well and I feel like I'm getting to know you and that is a wonderful feeling, Crystal.

[Crystal] I think that is great.

[Frank] I [inaudible] you're lovely, engaging, and perfection. And see, I always want to revere someone and put them up and never have them be fallible, so you've only --

[Crystal] But there's a little --

[Frank] -- one place to go is down, but, anyway.

[Crystal] I mean, as long as there's also a little element of fear in your feelings, that is good.

[Frank] See that is a quality I'm thinking of. Oddly, I'm like a bombastic personality but I have a sort of not -- I mean, maybe submissive or sort of like, you know, take control, please? I don't know. That might be getting too personal. But I'm very excited and I had a wonderful time so thank you, Crystal.

[Crystal] Me too.

[Frank] Awe. Alright, everybody. So, hey, tell everybody that Crystal and Frank are back and we're going to do it up and make it happen. So read All Quiet on the Western Front for the next time and thank you so much for listening to The Librarian Is In. Thanks.

[Narrator] Thanks for listening to The Librarian Is In, a podcast by the New York Public Library. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple podcast or Google Play or send us an email at podcasts@nypl.org. For more information about the New York Public Library, please visit NYPL.org. We are produced by Christine Farrell. Your hosts are Frank Collerius and Crystal Chen.

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