Welcome to The Librarian Is In, The New York Public Library's podcast about books, culture, and what to read next.

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This week Frank and Rhonda are coming to you from their respective homes as they practice social distancing and try to stay sane! True to form, Frank has chosen a darkly topical book to discuss this episode, while Rhonda is embracing audiobooks and other electronic resources that are still available during the Library’s closure.

Last Day by Domenica Ruta

Overground Railroad: The Green Book and the Roots of Black Travel in America by Candacy A. Taylor

If you're interested in this book, check out the Library's digitized Green Book Collection, which can be accessed by anyone, anywhere.

Girl, Woman, Other by Bernadine Evaristo

The Circle by Dave Eggers

Heavy: An American Memoir by Kiese Laymon

Don’t forget —our next release on April 9 will be a book club episode. Frank and Rhonda will be discussing Flannery O’Connor’s A Good Man is Hard to Find from the Library’s list of 125 Books We Love.

More things we talked about today:

• Mary Poppins Returns
• Marriage Story
• "Being Alive" by Barbra Streisand
• Graham Norton
• Hot Ones

Tell us what everybody's talking about in your world of books and libraries! Suggest Hot Topix(TM)! Send an email or voice memo to podcasts[at]nypl.org.

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Transcript

[Music]

[Frank] Hello and welcome to the New York Public Library's podcast, "The Librarian Is In," the podcast about books, culture, and what to read next. I'm still Frank --

[Rhonda] And I'm still Rhonda.

[Frank] And we're still here. I am still here. That's a Stephen Sondheim song. He just had his 90th birthday, by the way.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] yeah.

[Frank] So obviously -- well, we're here. So that's good. But Rhonda and I are not face-to-face, as so many of you listening are not face-to-face with people you care about. Because the library -- New York Public Library -- is closed and has been since March 13th. And we're all working remotely if we can. I'm very much a front-line person so a lot of what I do is for the public. But this podcast is something we could do, and we're doing it, as you can hear. So we're going to talk about some things we've been reading and doing and getting through. Right?

[Rhonda] Yes. Exactly.

[Frank] How are you, Rhonda?

[Rhonda] I am -- I am hanging in there, Frank. I'm at home with my cat, you know, still doing work for the library. You know, trying to help our patrons from home as much as we can. But, you know, trying to make the best of things. How about you, Frank? How are you hanging in there?

[Frank] I'm fine. I'm lucky. I feel lucky so far. You know, I don't know. Being alone is something that I'm used to. So, unfortunately, a lot of people are not. But I like being solitary but, to be honest, last week the building of my library -- the building super had to come in for a couple of days and I sort of came in with him. We were in different parts of the building, and I found that, like, all I wanted to do is the heaviest labor I could think of. I was, like, I weeded the fiction section like nobody's business.

[Rhonda] Really?

[Frank] Yeah, and well, weeding, for those of you who don't know, is just going through the collection and finding the best stuff and keeping it. And maybe withdrawing other things that you might not need at the time. But I even got a call from our IT guys saying, like, "Is someone on the computer there?" I shouldn't maybe say that, but I was so happy just to physically do something. And it sort of seems like the best things to do are, if you can, move a little bit.

[Rhonda] Absolutely.

[Frank] And read. Actually, I found -- which might segue into our discussion of books in that, I found it -- I started reading the book that I'm going to discuss, like, before all this happened, and --

[Rhonda] Okay.

[Frank] -- and then I found it hard to concentrate, which -- I would be reading and then I would find myself, like, my eyes drifted off the page and I'd be staring into the middle distance. And I'd be -- but I wouldn't really be thinking about anything. I think I just felt like a resistance to a -- an unconscious resistance to engaging in a book, because it felt like I couldn't lose consciousness of other things that are going on.

[Rhonda] You totally give yourself over to the book.

[Frank] Right. And I don't see reading as losing your consciousness. I feel like it's engaging almost on a higher level of consciousness that we very, very, very, very much need to do to keep our minds engaged and to give us language, like I always say, for experiences. And it's an important thing: Like the physical, do some movement, and then the mental and emotional. But --

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] -- eventually, as I was reading, I was able to focus because there was that sense of acceptance. It's, like, I can't do anything about X, Y, and Z right now.

[Rhonda] Right.

[Frank] And I am going to do this for myself, engage in this book. So it's such a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful resource to have, to be able to read.

[Rhonda] It is.

[Frank] Instead [inaudible] --

[Rhonda] I [inaudible] opposite experience because I was kind of like, well, now I have a little bit more time to actually kind of give myself over to some of these books that I have been wanting to read. You know, so, you know -- I feel like it's okay to kind of just let -- make the best of the situation. You know?

[Frank] Right. Well, you might actually be a quicker person to accept certain realities than maybe I -- than I thought I was. Because maybe that inability to concentrate at the beginning was about, like, am I missing something that I need to be doing to, you know, be okay and take care of myself, and that sort of hyper, sort of anxious thinking that --

[Rhonda] I'm sure a lot of people are experiencing that --

[Frank] Yeah.

[Rhonda] -- kind of anxiety around what's happening in the world right now.

[Frank] That is such an important thing. It's so important for all of us, I think. And certainly, I know, personally for me, that to move as quickly as you can to accepting what you cannot affect right now, and only know what you can affect. So you can healthily function and, you know, read a book or do some movement and talk to people on the phone. I -- you know, things like that. So, anyway --

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] -- you're a smarter, quicker gal than I am.

[Rhonda] No. It's just a different approach.

[Frank] A different approach. How clever of you, Rhonda.

[Rhonda] It's -- you're not terrible, Frank. It's just different [inaudible] --

[Frank] It's different. You calling me different?

[Rhonda] Yes. We're all different.

[Frank] That's true. We are.

[Rhonda] We are. All --

[Frank] We are.

[Rhonda] So what have you been reading, Frank?

[Frank] So you know me, like, I am faithful to my books. And I planned to read a bunch of things, but I ended up staying with one.

[Rhonda] Okay.

[Frank] And it's interesting. I started reading this book before all this happened. And then I just told you about my process about reading and getting to really focus and engage and be happy about it. But it's a book that some of you might laugh at me or you might be a little mad at me about, because it's sort of right up my alley. It's a [laughter] -- it's a book called "Last Day." [laughter]

[Rhonda] Okay.

[Frank] And it's about just what you think it's about. It's by an author named Domenica Ruta. R-U-T-A. It's her first novel. She wrote a memoir that was very well received called "With or Without You." And so the book I picked up is called "Last Day" by Domenica Ruta. And oh, wow, so many thoughts, so many thoughts.

[Rhonda] Wait. So this is fiction that --

[Frank] It is fiction.

[Rhonda] Oh. Okay.

[Frank] It's fiction book. She wrote a memoir before about her life, her relationship with her mother.

[Rhonda] Okay.

[Frank] Didn't read it. But now I think I want to. And so, you know, just that -- again, like, if you know me, the title "Last Day." I was like woo: Apocalyptic glamour. I'm, like, oh, into the apocalypse like [inaudible] --

[Rhonda] [inaudible] timing --

[Frank] I know. I mean, it also begs the issue of like, what is comforting.

[Rhonda] Uh-huh.

[Frank] And, like, what -- which I know, I think, Rhonda, you're going to tell me about because -- and I thought about this -- because I felt like, oh, do I want to bring this book in to talk about? But, you know, as some listeners know, like, I -- and I think a lot of -- some people do -- is that I find comfort in terrible things sometimes. Or reading about discomfort perversely makes me comfortable sometimes. Because it makes me feel, ugh, it's not as bad as all that. Almost, like, if you read something that's just too light or too happy or too perfect, it throws into contrast how I feel about myself or about my situation. And it might be too disjointed. But I could probably get, you know, the space for both.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] could be worse type of thing, you know. Yeah.

[Frank] And I think that's partly why we like horror but --

[Rhonda] Uh-huh.

[Frank] So the book is -- it's interesting. It's a fascinating read, I have to say. It's about, like, a three -- well, seven characters -- like three different groups of characters moving their way through these two days that are covered in the book. And it's a world -- the United States -- very much like -- and the world very much like the one we know. It's in the present, it seems. Everything is as we know it, except Domenica Ruta, the author, has created for the book a holiday called Last Day. And not only is it a US holiday, it's pretty much a global holiday celebrated all around the world. And the Last Day holiday is, basically, every year on May 27th to May 28th, it's the last day the world will be alive, will exist. And everybody celebrates it. But they celebrate it every year.

[Rhonda] Okay.

[Frank] Clearly, life goes on on May 29th even though, on May 27th, everyone celebrates and, you know, does different things that are very well delineated in the book. And each culture around the world has their own traditions and rituals. And, of course, it's become very commercialized, like, there are signs in stores that will, like, you know, get your sofa set now because you won't be able to tomorrow. Nyuck-nyuck-nyuck. Because it's the last day we're going to be here. And so it's funny to read about a holiday that is purporting to be the last day everyone's going to be alive, and then, sort of, everyone knows it's not going to be the case because it has never happened. And they've been celebrating this holiday for, like, hundreds and hundreds of years. And Domenica Ruta goes through a lot of the different traditions she creates in different countries, and it's hilarious. I mean, some of the things are actually very funny about different cultures, how they would celebrate something that celebrates the end of life or the world.

[Rhonda] Uh-huh.

[Frank] So, as I said, you follow a couple of characters through their day. And this is where it gets interesting, because you sort of are introduced to this holiday. But it's not introduced as something apocalyptic. It's just part of every year like you celebrate Christmas or Halloween or Thanksgiving, whatever. So, like, you know, a lot of people who don't really care about it just go out and get pizza, you know. [laughter] It's -- and then some people, like, take out full-page ads in magazines or newspapers, apologizing for their sins and the wrongdoing they've done to others. And obviously other people drink themselves silly. Or other people party and have bonfires. And it's all, like, you know, like, business as usual in lots of ways. But [inaudible] --

[Rhonda] So -- sorry. Go ahead.

[Frank] Your turn.

[Rhonda] I'm waiting -- it sounds great, but I think -- I keep waiting for a twist. Like, I keep waiting for you to say, then, it turns out to actually be the last day. [laughter]

[Frank] I'm sure I should even reveal --

[Rhonda] Okay. Okay.

[Frank] What would --

[Rhonda] I don't want to have any spoilers.

[Frank] I think I was thinking of doing it. And then I thought, I don't have to. Because what the twist, if you want to call it is, is -- and it's a challenge because -- and I say this as a compliment to the author. It's a difficult book to like. And that's something I also want to ask you, Rhonda, about how you feel, like, about. The characters are very interesting and very thorny and very flawed. You have, actually, two astronauts at a space station, you know, looking down on the earth, getting that perspective. You get their story. You have a woman who is suffering with some mental issues. And she's in a group home -- she lives in a group home -- who goes on a journey that last day to find a sort of adoptive brother that she grew up with under very, very terrible circumstances. Like, there's a sequence in the book that describes very briefly what happened to them. That is so painful. But what I actually like about what Domenica Ruta does, she doesn't delve deep into what happened. She almost gives it a brush stroke of one or two sentences that you fill in yourself that is almost more horrifying than if she told you in her own language. And then you have a 15-year-old girl who has a sort of crush on a much older guy who is a tattoo artist. And she's, sort of, has these wonderful parents and she decides to, like, you know, go into town -- Boston is her town -- and find this guy that she has a crush on and see what she can make happen. But they're very flawed, and they're very difficult and messy. And they don't -- you don't get serious resolutions to their choices, and it doesn't necessarily come to anything. So you sometimes say, why am I reading about these people?

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] You know? And so -- but I kept going because her writing is so good. And I wanted to know where this was going. And it's -- so I want to ask you, Rhonda, like, what do you feel like when -- first of all, do you require to sympathize with someone in a book or empathize, like these words that we use all the time. Like, what does that really mean?

[Rhonda] Right.

[Frank] What does that mean to you?

[Rhonda] I don't know. I think the characters that you're describing -- the ones that are flawed and messy, that you necessarily don't like -- I think those are my favorite kind of character.

[Frank] Uh-huh.

[Rhonda] You know? I feel like those are the most interesting ones. I mean, you know, it's great to have that reading experience where you really connect or empathize with the characters. But the ones where you're, like, what is up with this person? I feel like those are the ones, when you're just trying to figure out, like, what is the deal with this person. Those are the ones that kind of keep you reading. It reminds me of "My Year of Rest and Relaxation." Did you read that?

[Frank] Oh, yeah. Tell me about that.

[Rhonda] Yeah. That's the kind of character you don't like or you don't really understand -- in my experience of reading it -- what she's really trying to do. But it's a great book -- kind of the same experience that you're describing. So I'd love those -- I think those characters are just -- you really want to try to figure it out. It keeps you going in the book.

[Frank] Well, why do you think you like those best?

[Rhonda] Hmm.

[Frank] Because, like, what I was thinking when I was reading this was, like, it's sort of -- and I like when books do this to me personally, when they knock my arrogance down or they knock my ego down. Meaning I'm being so judgy about these characters and I am -- if I were written about by an author with the talent of Domenica Ruta, I don't know if I would come off all that great all the time.

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] You know what I mean? So it's, like, it makes me think, I want to spend time with them because I actually also -- you want to learn, like, about making good choices, you know? I mean it's [inaudible] in my withered age, I can still learn about making good choices. But also too -- I think it almost reveals a truer level of empathy, which is a very difficult thing, I think, when you can actually, sort of, get off the fact that you're not loving this character because they are messy and silly and don't make good choices and actually say, we're in the same boat. Like, we're not perfect either. I'm --

[Rhonda] Yeah. [inaudible] --

[Frank] [inaudible]. What?

[Rhonda] Yeah. I was saying, yeah, in ways you can identify with them and find some little point of connection.

[Frank] Or I'm not so -- I'm not better than you. I'm not better than you, character in a book. You know?

[Rhonda] [laughter]

[Frank] I have my own issues and so do you. And all right, I will spend time with you. So it's interesting, like, this -- that issue of, like, likability has always been a thorny one for me.

[Rhonda] Right.

[Frank] So, anyway, I think -- did I describe what you --

[Rhonda] You did.

[Frank] -- want to hear? So now, when I was reading it, I was, like, you know, following along and, like, you have their stories. And then you have the cutting to the traditions around the world, how the different cultures celebrate this holiday. And, you know, there's one of two ways it can end, you know. Something does indicate the last day or, like, what? They wake up -- all these characters that wake up the next morning and, like, oh. Well, we're back in our lives, our messy lives again. And you know what? I'm not going to tell you. What do you think happened?

[Rhonda] I've been waiting for it, Frank. I was [inaudible].

[Frank] Oh.

[Rhonda] -- happened.

[Frank] Well, you have to read the book.

[Rhonda] I know. [inaudible] intrigued now. I am intrigued.

[Frank] Well, I've got to say, the last few pages are stunning, gorgeous -- oh, my -- oh, my dear. Stunning, gorgeous writing after -- the woman is a poet, this author. She -- taking you through these characters, like I said, that are -- some of -- this one astronaut guy, he's like a sweetheart. He's very handsome. He's a really nice guy. But yet he is separated from his wife and is sort of estranged from his kids, and you're wondering why. And, you know, the characters are this kind of dichotomous messes. The last couple of pages just lift you into a galaxy far, far away of beauty. And I actually, you know, brushed a tear aside when I finished it. So --

[Rhonda] Oh. You [inaudible].

[Frank] Anyway, I've gone on so much and so long.

[Rhonda] No. That's --

[Frank] Anyway, we don't have time for Rhonda, but everybody: Thank you for joining us and --

[Rhonda] Oh, no. I have a book to talk about, Frank.

[Frank] All right, babe. Hit me.

[Rhonda] All right. So I went that kind of opposite direction. I did some nonfiction. So before we had to close the library because of the circumstances, we were working on a big exhibition called "Traveling While Black." Right? And it was all about, like, the black experience and travel in America. So there is this book called "Overground Railroad: The Green Book and Roots of Black Travel in America."

[Frank] Oh.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] heard of the Green Book, Frank?

[Frank] Yes. I have -- like, that was the movie last year, right?

[Rhonda] Yes. So I have never seen the film, but from what I have heard, the Green Book is not actually in the film. [laughter] So --

[Frank] Okay.

[Rhonda] Yeah. I don't know. It's kind of strange. But just to give like a [inaudible], that's the foundation of this book, which is, basically, was a book published between 1936 and '67 by a man named Victor Green. And, basically, what it was is -- it was a guide to help people travel safely -- black people specifically -- travel safely across the United States. Because in the '30s, people were just getting cars, right? But it, kind of -- what would happen is that people would have to travel hundreds and hundreds of miles without knowing, you know, could I stop and get gas? Could I stop and buy food? Could I stay at this motel? So traveling, you know, they still did it. They still went out and they still, you know, migrated to different areas. And they still, you know, went on vacations and stuff. But it was -- it was really -- it could be really scary.

[Frank] Wow.

[Rhonda] And it took a lot of preparation, right? So one of the stories that she kind of opens with is that the author, Candacy Taylor, as you know there was -- she talked about how when black people started to buy cars, what black men used to do who had really nice cars is that they would have a chauffeur hat in the car. So if they would --

[Frank] Oh.

[Rhonda] -- get pulled over, they could say, well, this is my employer's car and I'm taking it to his house, or I'm taking it home, you know, as a way to protect them. And so, you know, they had to travel with these plans. They had to travel with cans of gas and portable toilets and packs and packs of food, you know --

[Frank] Okay.

[Rhonda] -- because they didn't know --

[Frank] Rhonda, can I -- I don't mean to -- hope this isn't offensive, but it sounds like -- entirely -- like what we're going through, like this quarantining of a people. That --

[Rhonda] In a way [inaudible].

[Frank] -- forces them to think strategically.

[Rhonda] Yes.

[Frank] Okay. So when is this book -- when -- up until when was it in existence?

[Rhonda] Well, it ended publication in 1967.

[Frank] I knew it was the '60s. I mean --

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] -- I knew it, like, in my own lifetime, it's unbelievable.

[Rhonda] It's really interesting. And because -- and she does the book chronologically, so -- and it's not, again, like, it's not just about the Green Book. So what she's including in there is how the times are changing, and how they're affecting travel. So, of course, towards the end, you know, we're giving -- you know, it's -- we're desegregating a lot of different things and how that's affecting everything. And she starts in the '30s, right? So, of course, you know, you hear these stories of, you know, about how they couldn't stop. So she talks about sundown towns where there were laws, where, you know, black people had to leave a town at a certain hour. But, you know, there was a really kind of fun aspect to this in terms of -- she really highlights all of -- she did this I guess what we'd call a road trip. So she went and tried to visit all of these places that were in the books. And she talked about all of these really cool kind of black-owned businesses in the '30s that hosted people like Ella Fitzgerald and Sammy Davis, Jr., and where, like, MLK would do his strategy meetings. Because they all had to stay in the same places, you know, because it wasn't like, well, the famous people can stay at the nice hotel and the non-famous people can stay at the regular hotel because they all had to kind of stay in the same place. So all of these, like, really great, kind of interesting historical figures would all go to this one restaurant or this one hotel. And there were black-owned beaches and nightclubs and tailors and all kinds of really interesting places that she also discusses. So, you know, so she goes through that. But also what I want to point out about this book is --

[Frank] Uh-huh.

[Rhonda] -- she's a photographer. So there is a lot of history in it, but there's also some amazing photography of her kind of traveling through America, trying to find these different places. And, you know, she goes through Route 66. And it was really interesting because she said, you know, there was really pretty much no places on Route 66 that, you know, African-Americans could stop. And that's a really long you know, stretch of highway.

[Frank] Wow.

[Rhonda] And that it was so far that there would be accidents, like, at the end of Route 66 because people had to just drive straight through.

[Frank] Oh.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] tells these really kind of interesting history, you know, historical, you know, stories but blends it in with historical photograph, she blends it in with her photographs, with the images of the Green Book, and talks about, you know -- goes into these stories of the people who owned these businesses, of women who owned, you know, beauty salons that could advertise them in the Green Book. And, you know, something that was started by a mail carrier -- he was a postal worker, Victor Green, for his entire life and was able to kind of just like do this on the side. But it became such a big thing because it helped, you know, it helped so many people. So, you know --

[Frank] It's an unbelievable story. It's so -- such a story. My God --

[Rhonda] Yeah. It's really -- it's really -- you know there's so many little stories in there that really make you think about, you know, you know, how much have things really changed today. And there are stories in there that kind of make you just put a lot of stuff in perspective, like you said, even what's happening now -- of, you know, who can go and get gas at this place? Or who could go and eat at this restaurant? And making their own communities -- it even has integration, like, was really kind of the end of the Green Book because people were able to go and kind of go to all these places that they were never able to go to before.

[Frank] Right.

[Rhonda] So, you know, to see it, to see the photographs along with these different stories, you know, and it's kind of really -- it's a great book when you're stuck at home because the photographs and you're kind of traveling with her.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Rhonda] So --

[Frank] Did the book -- what is the title again?

[Rhonda] It is called the "Overground Railroad" --

[Frank] Right.

[Rhonda] -- "The Green Book and Roots of Black Travel in America."

[Frank] Did she talk to people on her journey that were around then or --

[Rhonda] She did. So she talked to, you know, people who were living in those areas that had those, like, really great nightclubs and those really great restaurants. And some of them are still in existence. And some people, you know, they're maybe, like, in their 90s, but they're still around --

[Frank] Yeah.

[Rhonda] -- and they're about, you know, like, not only were these places, like, lifesavers, but they were just kind of, like, great places. Like she talked about tourist homes, which were homes that basically, almost, like what we call an Airbnb today. Someone owned the house and, you know, since there's no hotels that you can stay in, you just stay in -- they would rent a room to you. And they would give you a meal, and there would be lots of other people staying there. And it was just kind of, like, a really nice community experience out of this, like, not so great situation. So and, of course, Victor Green has been -- he passed away, you know, years ago --

[Frank] Hmm.

[Rhonda] -- so there was no one that she really talked to who was actually involved with the Green Book itself. But she definitely was able to speak to people who were impacted by, who carried it, who bought it, you know, and see, you know, what a lifesaver it was for people.

[Frank] Had you known about this? The Green Book?

[Rhonda] I did. When did I first learn about the Green Book? I knew about the Green Book -- I think I knew about it a little bit before the film came out.

[Frank] Really?

[Rhonda] Yeah. And I want to say, you know, part of working at the New York Public Library -- and this is also great for our listeners who are interested in this -- it is available by e-book but also the Schomburg Center, where I work, has probably the most complete collection of the Green Books. And we have digitized all of them. So you can go to the NYPL digital collections and look through all of these Green Books and see, you know, the progression they made. Because they first had just started out with, you know, here's a list of hotels, here's a list of restaurants. But then it got into night clubs, and then they kind of went to people having travel agencies that went to Africa. And then it got into air travel, and you kind of see this progression through the Green Books. So people who are just interested in, like, the history of travel, of the, you know, not just, you know, African-American history, but just like going from these old automobiles to how they included train travel --

[Frank] Uh-huh.

[Rhonda] -- airline travel, and even cruises and things like that.

[Frank] Wow. So can you, like, access this, like, right from home right now? Or do you have to be in a facility?

[Rhonda] No. Anyone -- you don't have to be an NYPL member. Anyone can go to NYPL digital collections and just put in Green Book --

[Frank] Oh, really?

[Rhonda] -- and see all of our Green Books.

[Frank] Okay. Well, there she goes again, hustling the library. Good for you, Rhonda.

[Rhonda] You know, it's something to do when you're at home and [inaudible] --

[Frank] I know.

[Rhonda] Yeah. You know, you go on there, you look at the Green Books. It's kind of fun.

[Frank] Well, there you gave homework. Good. [laughter]

[Rhonda] I gave homework [inaudible] --

[Frank] [laughter] Thank you, Miss Evans. No. But that sounds really fascinating and unbelievable when I hear these stories. Oh, my.

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] All right. So I also know that you're an audio queen, that --

[Rhonda] Oh, yeah.

[Frank] -- you've been listening to audio-books. Am I jumping the gun by asking you about what you've been listening to or --

[Rhonda] Uh, so what am I listening to right now? Oh, I'm listening to this really great book. I think she's a British author. Let me pull it up.

[Frank] Oh. I should also mention that the book I discussed, "Last Day" by Domenica Ruta, is available as an e-book on NYPL.org or wherever you get e-books or I don't know. You know what I mean -- [laughter] -- through the library. I think I've been told to make that clear, and I think I have. [laughter] So however you like to read your books [inaudible] --

[Rhonda] Yes. Listening to them, e-books -- I'm listening to a book called "Girl, Woman, Other" by Bernardine Evaristo.

[Frank] Hmm.

[Rhonda] And it's a British -- she's a British author. And it's kind of like what you were describing. It's a story told by a lot of many different characters, kind of like if you are a fan of, I would say, like, "Olive Kitteridge," that type of book.

[Frank] Uh-huh.

[Rhonda] You know, chapters, kind of, told from a different perspective, a different woman. But I do have some recommendations for audio-books that people can access with their library card or wherever they get books. So one of the ones I wanted to recommend that I think I stopped -- I talked to you about, Frank, which -- I call this one of the ones that you just, kind of, can't stop listening -- is "The Circle" by Dave Eggers. You read that, right?

[Frank] Oh. "The Circle," yes. I've read it.

[Rhonda] Yes. So I think we have, like, a number of copies on audio, but I, like, listening to that, it's kind of, like, so suspenseful. It has a really great narrator. But another one I wanted to recommend, which is read by the author, is "Heavy: An American Memoir" by Kiese Laymon. And I think one of the great things about audio memoirs is that they're usually read by the author so you're hearing someone telling their story in their own words. So that's really kind of cool as well.

[Frank] So is "The Circle" -- since I've read it -- by Dave Eggers, is that read by one person?

[Rhonda] That's read by one person --

[Frank] Yeah.

[Rhonda] -- Dion Graham --

[Frank] The young woman who is the protagonist in that book.

[Rhonda] Yes.

[Frank] Well, how would you describe that book for those listening who haven't read it?

[Rhonda] Oh, I think, you know, it's very relevant to today. This young woman starts working for this company called The Circle which, I guess, is kind of like the most powerful Internet company in the world -- like Google times ten. You know, connects everything: Users emails and social medias and banking and, kind of, as she works for this company, it begins to take over her life.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] and it begins to kind of take over the rest of the world and other people's lives. And there's these, like, elements of thriller and mystery, suspense. You know, I don't want to give too much away.

[Frank] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was also -- I was -- you know me with my crazy message. I was sort of setting you up because I know what that book is about. And that's one of the reasons why I do like, obviously, reading a book -- book book, paper book -- is that -- especially that focus thing, like, devices and computers and stuff, like, it's so easy to get distracted -- like, check the news constantly. I actually have this thing last couple of days where I haven't checked the news in the morning for a couple hours after I get up. And the mornings are, like, now this sort of precious thing, because I could actually -- what I've noticed I do is, I feel hopeful, you know, for good news and change. And then I just accept, like, all right, just dive in and see what's going on. Because Lord knows I'm fiddling with the news until late at night on TV or other ways. But, oh, reading: Thank God for it.

[Rhonda] And I think that's really smart, Frank, because I think in times like these, it can be really easy to just get sucked into the news and kind of be watching it all day or checking it all day. So kind of, like, allotting a time where you're not checking the news, I think it's very healthy.

[Frank] Yeah. It's also that, you know, the cycle, as has been said -- and it's always been this way to some degree -- the cycle is such that there's a lot of content that needs to be provided. So if you are obsessive, like we've all been, about checking the news, you're really getting, sometimes, the same articles with different headlines on the same kind of information that's just slightly repackaged to sound like it's new. And it's just crazy-making really. It's not new, real information you really need. You know what I mean?

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] You know, and then also I've -- now I avoid looking at anything as prognosticating -- that's sort of like, you know, why the next three weeks will be the worst ever. Or why the next -- what you should know about the next three weeks. I'm, like, you know what? I'll get there when I get there. I --

[Rhonda] Exactly.

[Frank] -- I don't have to read what you think. Because in lots of ways, we know that -- there are a lot of very intelligent people working on providing us with information, but nobody really knows exactly what's going to happen. So there is that sense of, like, okay, let -- I read somewhere or I heard, I don't know where or how -- but where someone has said, it really was a -- among many other things, a moment in time where they really -- and I felt this too -- where they were forced to live in the moment. Really. Like we always talk about that, like, you know, living in the moment, live in the moment. And it -- you know how hard that is. But, in a way, if you really accept, like, the unknowability -- there's a line from -- I keep interrupting myself, but there's a line from "Last Day" that I discussed, where the astronauts see -- are watching the Earth from space. And some things might be happening, and one of them thinks to himself: Now the only thing left to do was wonder, and it was terrible. And, at first, I was, like, what? I could -- that's horrible. And what I actually did not forget that line was that, okay, of course, when our minds go and we wonder and are confused and are prognosticating, it's going to go to a terrible place lots of times. And when you accept, like, you don't know, and it might be terrible, fine. That's that. I can't control it. That's tomorrow. I have right now. And that's actually when I was able to start focusing on reading and getting the pleasures from it that we so very much need. When I only have right now, and right now is going to be pretty darn good, you know what I mean --

[Rhonda] Yeah. Everything is okay right now.

[Frank] So anyway. What else? What I have to say that my focus issue is, like, I've also -- for some reason have not been able to get into movies or like watching anything.

[Rhonda] Really? I kind of think like [inaudible] --

[Frank] Well except I rewatched for, like, the third or fourth time and was riveted every second -- this is -- I love, like, my dichotomy. I'm, like, I'm reading apocalyptic books, and then I watched and was riveted, for the fourth time, by "Mary Poppins Returns." Love that movie. Love that movie.

[Rhonda] I have never seen that.

[Frank] Oh. I had a ball the other night.

[Rhonda] Mary Poppins --

[Frank] I was just, like, singing and dancing with Emily Blunt and Lin-Manuel Miranda. Oh, boy. That movie is so good.

[Rhonda] I've never -- okay [inaudible].

[Frank] I had fun. See, I like musicals, too. I like -- and also there's some, you know, Mary Poppins' character is sort of, like -- talk about comforting -- is I like her sort of, like, unsentimental but loving rigor and focus on manners and, you know, disciplinarian, but good-hearted. You know, that sort of, like, "spit-spot" character that makes me feel safe. It makes -- actually makes me feel comforted. There's something maternal but, like, satisfyingly unsentimental and sort of, like, I'm going to take care of things. But we're going to do this together, we're going to do it the right way. So I don't know. I've found that very comforting.

[Rhonda] That sounds great, but I also -- I've been kind of just indulging in really kind of bad TV movies which I love. Like, I love Lifetime movies --

[Frank] Oh [inaudible] --

[Rhonda] -- thriller ones, you know, where there's like a, you know, like a stalker girlfriend or, you know, something like that. So I've -- you know, I feel like now is the time to kind of, like, indulge in those guilty pleasures as well. Like, if you have your Lifetime movies, maybe your reality TV shows --

[Frank] For sure.

[Rhonda] -- you know, whatever takes your mind off of it.

[Frank] Absolutely.

[Rhonda] Yeah.

[Frank] There's -- no -- yeah, there's nothing wrong with -- I mean, I've been watching like YouTube stuff, like, do you know a talk show host named Graham Norton?

[Rhonda] Yeah. Of course. He's British, right?

[Frank] Yeah. His talk show is so good. He is so funny himself, but he also really brings out the goofball in his very famous guests.

[Rhonda] He does.

[Frank] And I could go through -- down a Graham Norton spiral because he's -- it's just a satisfying show. My God, it's so funny and so, like -- they can also curse and say crazy things. It was, like, really fun. So anyway, I didn't plan on mentioning that, but that's one thing I've been watching.

[Rhonda] Well, if we're talking, one last thing about YouTube, have you watched "Hot Ones"?

[Frank] No. What is that?

[Rhonda] "Hot Ones" is a really fun show. It's, you know, this guy, he has celebrity guests, like really big names, you know. And what they do is, like, while he's interviewing the person, the person has 10 hot wings in front of them --

[Frank] Oh. I have heard of this.

[Rhonda] -- [inaudible] super, super hot and, like, they have to just answer these questions while their mouth is just, like, getting hotter and hotter. I think the funniest one was Gordon Ramsay. You know, if you want to -- his show is just, like, light. Like, the questions aren't really heavy. You know, it's really funny, like, that's something, kind of, just, like, light and fun to watch as well.

[Frank] I think I saw one with Kristen Bell.

[Rhonda] Okay.

[Frank] So I do know that one [laughter]. It's easy to get lost in YouTube, that's for sure.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] a YouTube hole, I think.

[Frank] You've got to, you know, you've got a little bit of YouTube, a little bit of a book, a little bit of an audio, a little jumping up and down, you've got to dance around, definitely. I think there are lots of people dancing around their apartments or homes these days.

[Rhonda] Well, have you heard of Club Quarantine? I hope you've heard of [inaudible] --

[Frank] I did. I did.

[Rhonda] Yeah. So.

[Frank] I know. Oh --

[Rhonda] [inaudible] took advantage of --

[Frank] [singing] Oh, somebody crowd me with love. Somebody force me to care. Somebody let me come through, I'll always be there.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] is that all we have for today?

[Frank] [singing] Being alive, being alive.

[Rhonda] [inaudible] the end of the episode, here.

[Frank] And Stephen Sondheim again. That's been on my mind, for some reason, that song, "Being Alive." I think what reminded me is there's a Barbra Streisand performance on YouTube of that song. And I --

[Rhonda] And that's the best version, actually.

[Frank] What?

[Rhonda] That's the best version.

[Frank] Barbra or me?

[Rhonda] Yeah. No. Barbra. [laughter]

[Frank] [laughter] You're like, no, Barbra. I'm like, Barbra or me?

[Rhonda] Is that a serious question, Frank?

[Frank] It's such a great thing because it's, like, about being alive but, like, not being alone. And right now, a lot of us have to be alone, but it's sort of like the difficulty of being alone. And what is [singing] being alive. Have you seen "Marriage Story"?

[Rhonda] I have not, and it doesn't really -- I don't know. It's not something -- I haven't been -- yeah.

[Frank] I'm really -- well, I heard that Adam Driver sings "Being Alive" in that movie in some context. I haven't seen it, but I want to because I want to see the performances. But anyway -- all right, babies. Being alive is what it's all about. We're all going to be alive. We're all going to get through this. Oy. You know what I mean.

[Rhonda] Yeah. And you're all going to be able to join us on April 9th for our second book club discussion, which is Flannery O'Connor's "A Good Man is Hard to Find" --

[Frank] -- "and Other Stories." Did you see that somebody commented about Flannery O'Connor on our blog post, which is at -- is it still NYPL.org/125? Yeah. So somebody commented about rereading Flannery -- I guess they heard us mention that rereading Flannery O'Connor was a revelation because they had read it long time ago, and reading it now, they derive so much from it. So I'm excited. I've read a couple of her stories, and I'm excited to reread them and then read others. So April 9th, we will be discussing the second book that we've discussed from the New York Public Library's 125 Books We Love list, celebrating the 125th anniversary of the library on April 9th. So anything else we have to mention, Rhonda?

[Rhonda] Let's see. You know, basically, we want to remind you all that, during our closure for the New York Public Library, you can have access to our digital resources. If you are a listener in New York State, we have the SimplyE app to apply for a library card. And you can access e-books, the digital collections which anyone can access. You can access the audio-books, the books that Frank and I were talking about today. So, you know, even though we're closed, we're still here for you, and you can still, you know, participate and be part of the New York Public Library community.

[Frank] All right. Thanks, Rhonda. And thanks, everybody, for listening. You can find us wherever you find your podcasts. Obviously, you're listening to it so you found us. And we'll be back soon. So everyone stay well and read a book.

[Rhonda] And be safe and practice social distancing.

[Narrator:] Thanks for listening to "The Librarian Is In", a podcast by the New York Public Library. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Google Play, or send us an email at podcasts@NYPL.org. For more information about the New York Public Library and our 125th anniversary, please visit NYPL.org/125. Your hosts are Frank Collerius and Rhonda Evans. We are produced by Christine Ferrell and recorded at our Andrew Heiskell Braille and Talking Book Library in Manhattan.