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Welcome to another episode of The Librarian Is In! As we get settled into fall here in New York City, Frank and Crystal picked books they felt were "cozy" to match the weather. Their picks were two very different ways of applying the word to a book selection. Join us for a discussion of how they defined "cozy" and how it impacted the book they each chose. 

Frank finds comfort in reading celebrity memoirs and his cozy book was:

The Girl on the Balcony: Olivia Hussey Finds Life After Romeo & Juliet by Olivia Hussey

In 1968, Olivia Hussey became one of the most famous faces in the world, immortalized as the definitive Juliet in Franco Zeffirelli's Romeo & Juliet. Now the iconic girl on the balcony shares the ups and downs of her truly remarkable life and career. (Publisher summary)

 

 

 

Crystal decided to read a cozy mystery! 

Dial A For Aunties by Jesse Q. Sutanto 

After accidentally killing her blind date, Meddelin Chan and her meddlesome mother and aunties must dispose of the body, which finds its way to the island resort on the California coastline where they are working their biggest job yet for their family wedding business. (Publisher summary)

 

 

 

 

How do you define a "cozy" book? What did you read this week! Leave a comment below!

See you next week!

Tell us what everybody's talking about in your world of books and libraries! Suggest Hot Topix(TM)! Send an email or voice memo to podcasts[at]nypl.org.

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Transcript

[Frank] Hello and welcome to the Librarian is in, the New York Public Library's podcast about books, culture and what to read next. I'm Franco --

[Crystal] And I'm Crystal -- It's Crystal, in that case.

[Frank] Crystal. Franco and Crystal. Franco, actually that figures in what I might talk.

[Crystal] Oh, really? Is that a clue? Ok.

[Frank] Of course. Here, what do you think of this? [ Music ]

[Crystal] It's like a dramatic beginning to like Cleopatra or some movie. I don't know.

[Frank] Oh, interesting. I just thought I would play that little bit of music. It sort of figures into the book I'm going to talk about, you know? I mean, to just bring the drama and get it going here. Now, of course, they're constructurizing outside. Maybe I should close the window. New York, always under construction. Anyway, how are you my dear?

[Crystal] Good. I would also say we can have dueling construction, because I think there's construction on my side as well. So --

[Frank] In your fairly new offices. What are they doing over there? Or is it not inside your building, it's outside?

[Crystal] I think it's inside. I think there's construction on the other floors and the elevators are all like taped up with particle boards, so there must be construction in the building. Yeah.

[Frank] Yeah. Well, you know? That's, you know -- That's been, to be honest, I've been very -- Maybe more so than usual because I'm never serene and calm, but like the last couple weeks have been so -- My head has been racing a mile a minute because I'm -- I realized I love libraries because I work at Battery Park City and -- But I'm normally at Jefferson Market and Jefferson Market is under construction and I've basically made incredible commitments to Battery Park City. Like I'm so embedded there and doing so many projects and sort of very engaged. And then, I'm also, after I leave there I come to Jefferson Market and think about all the things I need to do to get us ready to open up soon. And then, I think about both libraries and it's almost like I have like, you know, two spouses that I'm in love with, you know? What?

[Crystal] Marriage and a mistress situation --

[Frank] Marriage and a mistress. Yeah, that's so me. But so, I just feel like I can't think of anything else. And then, especially with our producer who had the, I thought, brilliant idea to sort of talk about read something and talk about something cozy, last couple of weeks is like the last thing I can think of is cozy. So I'm furious at the producer for this because I couldn't even think of cozy. I couldn't even -- I couldn't even think about every good read cozy. But when she suggested it, I was like "Oh, this is so cool. What a perfect thing." And what do you think of cozy? What? Cozy.

[Crystal] I? Moi?

[Frank] Yeah. I? Yes. There's no one else here, honey!

[Crystal] Well, you know, I think I interpret it as something that's very familiar and comforting and that's kind of where I went with my choice. How do you feel about it?

[Frank] Yeah, I actually -- Great, [inaudible] back to me. I think that's a perfectly imperfect definition. I ended up defining it by using the analogy that I go to and I'm sure a lot of people do is like, you know, a storm is raging outside and you're inside snuggled up in blankets. Like there's -- And so, in other words there's like volatility and potential danger outside but you feel very safe and comfortable in yourself, inside. So like that storm, well it might have the threat of danger really is just outside and not inside, so you feel cozy. You know what I mean? Did I say that right? So not just comfort, but I guess these have the -- Something volatile. I was defining cozy as like you have to have, almost to feel cozy, you have to have something that's sort of almost dangerous, maybe. But that's not so much of a threat that it threatens your safety truly. You can almost enjoy the volatility from a position of safety and that makes -- Maybe you feel cozy because you feel like "Oh, I feel safe. I'm not in that horrible storm." So that's what I thought to get you to where I needed to go because like I really realized I don't -- I don't really read for cozy because also cozy is not a bad thing. It indicates to me, maybe we could debate it, most of your mind turning off, like your thoughts are not racing, your thoughts are not -- You're just almost physical creature comfort and to your mind is turned off and usually when I read, I usually read to turn my mind on. So I was sort of on a little journey to figure out what I read that I could turn cozy. And then, I did come up on something that I will discuss that I actually resisted. It caused me anxiety because it felt personal and sort of like trivial but revealing at the same time. So I was just sort of like -- But then I realized it is what I read a lot to go for comfort. So that's the cozy story. Do you often read books you would term cozy? ​​

[Crystal] Yes, yes. I think you kind of like called it earlier about like the idea of reading some books that your brain kind of turns off a little bit. And I don't -- Again, like -- In the same way, I don't mean that in an insulting way or anything like that but is relaxing -- There are certain pathways that you follow that feel very familiar and you know certain things are not going to happen, like the main character is not going to get killed for whatever -- You don't have that kind of expectation with other books, right? So it's like, you know, like doing the jigsaw puzzle, you know? That kind of comfort level which is where I went with my choice but we're going to that later.

[Frank] Yeah. And -- What was I going to say? I hear your construction going. What [inaudible] going to say? What did -- You said something. Now [inaudible] off. Oh, mine turning off. Yeah. It's -- So what I ended up with was all of the things we just said and actually it's sort of like an interesting genre unto itself. Oh, it's sort of -- I know you said like when you sort of know -- Part of that comfort is you know what's going to happen. And I -- You and -- I, sometimes, I often read for revelation and big drama. That's what I was going to say. And sort of like psychological insight and sort of disturbance. And that's why I blasted or played that little piece of music before, because it's dramatic and it actually what it is, it's a snippet of an opening credits of a TV mini series in the 70s called The bastard. And well, it segways into the book, I read it and it starts like a host of like sixties and seventies and previous like TV actors. Probably every name I'm mentioning right now is going to be alien to you or maybe to a lot of our listeners. Maybe I shouldn't presume such, but it's like the music brought the drama, yet there's something so cozy about it now because I was like a young tween, you know, watching these mini series in the 70s and with -- It usually had old movie stars in them and that I was obsessed with and then newer people who I became obsessed with. I mean, that's really my -- What I read is my genre, which is basically actresses memoires, that's what it is. And because I was so -- At a young age, so obsessed with movies watched on TV, like watching these old movies -- You know, this is what I [inaudible] about how to present this as a psychological presentation. I don't know if I can do it, because I'm not that great. I'm not a writer. There you go. But they made such an impact on me and it's sort of like what makes an impact on us when we're young. And probably above all was was these iconic movie stars and actors from my -- The time of my youth to way before. I always liked things that were before my generation or not even no longer with us like that was sort of so distant [inaudible] past, which is like another definition of cozy, when something is distant and doesn't impact you today which might have involved [inaudible] that. And so -- And also just the impact with you really drill it down of a still photograph or a few frames of film, of a beautiful -- Of what a beautiful face or a face that you -- One finds beautiful or intriguing, or magical, or glamorous and has magic, or a few frames of films. And it's so important to show that and because that face is framed. Like when you frame something in any way, literally as a picture frame or frame it with a camera lens, you're automatically giving it importance and pay attention to me. You're asking -- One is asking an audience to pay attention. And with actresses, particularly as a young kid, I felt there was an emotionalism to act -- Female actors, actresses that actresses didn't seem to be allowed to have or at least the kind of emotionalism that suddenly appeals to me. Why? I don't know. Also that -- Which can be objectifying, certainly, and this has been discussed a lot since the Golden Age of a so-called beautiful face that is then lovingly photographed and presented as something to admire. And that iconography and that emotionalism, more emotional, more of a neuroticism even appealed to me more than actors, male actors. And it's something that I wanted to manifest something -- I wanted people to look at me. I wanted to be beautiful. I wanted to be this object and that's -- You know, in the years since it's like a terrible thing to want. It's sort of a terrible thing. And it's interesting you can go through your life and function and be productive and be a good person and -- But still have these early teens things in you. Like you can take them for the rest of your life. Like I said to myself, at this late age, I [inaudible] to still be a hollywoodarian. Almost like a lax catholic. Like I might not believe in the iconography of Hollywood anymore, but yet it's still so much hard on me because I believed in it so much. And that early teenage energy of wanting to become something, wanting to be looking to the future -- What -- Who am I going to love? Who? What's going to happen? It's so tied up with that and, you know, Hollywood is great. Old Hollywood is great, especially by its morality and its rules are not really great rules to live life by. Like, you know, everyone's beautiful, everyone's happy, everyone's whatever. Or even if it's not, if it's dramatic, it's sort of like this very heightened sense of reality that one can also seek out, which I certainly did. So actually let me read -- [Inaudible] to this quote from the book and see if you can figure it out. I wonder how much you know about old Hollywood or these people, but -- Or older Hollywood. "Juliet, it's the defining role of my life and most likely the reason you're reading this book. While it brought me fame. for whatever that's worth and glamour, it also thrusted me into a spotlight that, while intoxicating, was at times too bright and too revealing. It changed everything and would define my life in ways I never could have imagined. One thing is certain, although the role brought me some terrible moments of grief and doubt and sadness, most of what I know about love and faith and joy, of the world and how I fit into it, I know because I played the part of Juliet." See I had to sort of give it a little like sarcastic twist because I can't even -- Even though I believe every word of that and I love the glamour of it, I love the drama of it but there's something that makes me feel slightly embarrassed about it. Like how -- Like I shouldn't because these thing, like I just said, like are so important to us [inaudible] we're so young and they can impact on us and -- Anyway, do you -- What do you think?

[Crystal] This is so tough for me because the only Juliet actress I recall is Claire Danes from Romeo plus Juliet with Leonardo DiCaprio. And I can't think past that. So I'm not sure.

[Frank] You are so right and that's actually -- That's a good example of what is such a generational thing. It's like -- That's a good -- I mean, whatever impact that movie made -- And I know it, the Claire Danes-DiCaprio version made an impact on a different generation than mine, you remembered it. It's in your head like she's in your head. Maybe not to the point where you think about her often or something that made such a huge impact to you, but she's in your head. That's totally legit. This is from but I would argue is a more famous version, but maybe less remembered, named These days, from 1968. The Franco -- That's why I said Franco at the beginning of this podcast. Franco Zeffirelli, a famous Italian director, directed Romeo and Juliet with Olivia Hussey and Leonard Whiting. And it was a movie -- Like it's a little before my generation Olivia Hussey -- Olivia Hussey's book I'm talking about, the actress. And she -- She and Leonard Whiting are a generation before me, but from my time in school in the seventies and eighties, like a lot of freshman classes watched that movie, like brought us in to watch that movie because this is our introduction to Shakespeare and we were going to study in our high school years. So it's a movie that impacted many generations, I think, until maybe Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio came along and tousled things up. But I just loved -- So my cozy thing was like I realized I loved reading these books about actresses who made such an impact on me, even if it was like one movie. Like I didn't see their whole work -- Ouvre of movies. And I didn't even get introduced to Olivia Hussey from Romeo and Juliet. It was that mini TV series, The Bastard, on TV, these late 70s and that was like something about her -- Was like tempestuous, wild, beautiful, like dramatic, I must know who you are and then I saw Romeo and Juliet later. So it wasn't really that role that I loved -- I say I love that little thing like what was it about something like, to be honest, like cheeseball TV mini series about immigrating to America during the American Revolution, was like all these TV stars in the 70s, you know? What was it about that? I mean, something seemingly so puffball can still embed in your psyche because it's another human being's face, another human being framed, another human being -- Expressing an emotionalism that you want, that one wants to be a part of or have that heightened feeling of just what it feels like to watch something you think is beautiful or charismatic. And so, anyway, that was my segway and Olivia Hussey wrote a book a couple of years ago called The girl on the balcony, Olivia Hussey finds life after Romeo and Juliet. And I just loved it. I mean, when I thought about the cozy aspect is like everytime like a memoir comes out with an actress of that vintage, I just read it. And I read it like you said, my mind can go off because I know so much about what they're talking about, like what Hollywood is like, what the studios were like. All the people they mention, like Olivia Hussey can mention meeting Robert Mitchum, who's a famous actor from the 50s. And I can plug in all the details about him because I know him too. Like I obsessively read about these actors when I was younger. And so it's a cozy world to be in, in a way. What were you saying?

[Crystal] You're revisiting old friends by kind of re-entering that world.

[Frank] Yeah. Yeah, you could say that. I mean, old companions in a way and that's where the element of the volatility outside but the comfort inside is. That, because your teenage years and teenagers are so fraught with becoming and they're so tied up in that and now that so many years later I can look back and feel fond of that kid I was, in relation to these actors and feel a sense of awe. And so the volatility is in the past, but yet it -- The magic is still part of me, so there is that excitement but there is like a sort of comfort. There's comfort. And then, usually these actors' memoirs follow like a pattern, like you said it, what you said about cozy books, like you know what's going to happen. You know this won't happen, like this person won't get killed and this will be resolved, whatever. Like cozy mysteries. But like -- So these memoirs always follow the same pattern. It's always like "I was young and beautiful and plucked out of nowhere. And then, I had a series of bad marriages and I had a terrible moment here. And then, I had a crisis here and I had some lovely children, now I'm great." And it always ends up -- Because they write the memoir, you know, of course, when they're at a place of like "I can look back and say it was all good and I'm in a great place now." And then, it's usually at the end. So you know it's going to be like everything's fine. Like they didn't become horribly self-destructive or they survived that part of their life. There is always that part of the life. I mean, there's other quotes about like just like, you know, like I said in that quote, like you know "The fame was overwhelming and blinding." And, of course, like those of us who never get famous are just like "Yeah, ok." But then I know, as an older person, I know that fame will not give you what you think it will and also it probably is pretty damn hard. I mean, like it sounds elitist in a way because you get a lot of money. But then, I think that's -- They straddle in these memoirs [inaudible] to sort of say "I'm grateful but it was also not really easy." And I believe that. Like when -- I love -- And I love those details about when they're like writing about Olivia Hussey writing about being on the set of Romeo and Juliet and you think it's "Oh, my god. They're in Italy. It's so glamorous. It's like this impactful movie." And she's sort of like "I couldn't think of anything else but the fact that my dress was too tight and my feet hurt." And you know, and you're like "What? Like, what? Like you're supposed to be in this great emotion and you were worried about your -- Your [inaudible] being too tight?" And -- But I love that and that gives a cozy feeling, because it's sort of like the mundane stuff that we all go through, like when we look back on our own memories of like tightened days and you're like -- Like I remember when I visited Yorkshire in England, the sort of the Brönte part of the world and I want -- So excited to be there and I had new shoes and they hurt when I was walking in the moors of Yorkshire. And I was like "I am in the moors of Yorkshire for the first time in my life, but my shoes killed me." So when I think about the memory, I think about the glamour and hightenness of being in Yorkshire but I also remember my shoe hurts. And so, that's what you get with these memoirs too, like this sort of like everyday mundanity behind the glamour. So I really have to say that, that's a genre of this sort of like memoir about Hollywood that I find very cozy.

[Crystal] How old is she now?

[Frank] She's 70. ​​

[Crystal] Seventy? Ok.

[Frank] Yeah, she's a little younger. She's not like the old, old Hollywood, like Richard would -- Like Bette Davis would be, like a 112 now. But Olivia has this like a generation before me and, you know -- It's just -- I don't know. I had so much fun reading it. I mean, I've read a whole bunch of these. Whenever they come out [inaudible]. What were you going to say?

[Crystal] I liked the idea where you were kind of touching on earlier about like how there's that comfort level because you knew that this person has had this like kind of expansive career and if there were bumps in the road, they've kind of gotten past it. And there is something about these like celebrity memoirs where it is, in some ways, self selecting because like the actors who have had tragic circumstances in their lives and maybe didn't survive and they're not the ones writing these memoirs, right? [Inaudible] people who have like -- Had good lives, lived those lives and are able to look back and are in the position to reflect and write about that with some distance and, I guess, empathy and kindness too, right? So --

[Frank] Exactly. Like when we read the Mariah Carey book and like I also -- Like I love that aspect like Olivia Hussey and she says it in her own -- In the book and I alluded to it in that quote where she was like, you know, that one movie is probably -- Probably the reason why you're reading this book and in another point she says "You know, if I'm remembered at all it's because of this." And I love that. And part of these memoirs too whether it's I'm the actress themselves or it's edited, I like to believe it's them, there's always an element of self-deprecation and there's always that element of walking the line between "Yes, I was nominated for an Academy Award and my movies were hits all over the world. But, yeah, I felt lonely." Like there's always this like I got to give you my credits, I got to give you the fact that I was a big deal at a moment. But -- And I don't regret that. It's like sort of take your moment to say this was when I had a spotlight on me and now, you know, I'm not in the public eye anymore and I'm fine. That's the comforting part. But I love that sort of self-deprecating, yet, you know, I can't resist telling you that I was hot stuff. And so, that element of -- -- that Olivia Hussey is like very much of this -- In the collective memory, she is memory that -- Remembered and I remember and, of course, a lot of people do. In a very specific time and, you know, her career didn't necessarily [inaudible] -- Translate through the decades, so she's become like an icon in the bigger, public conscience. I loved the idea of reading a book by someone in that [inaudible] rather than a huge, huge, huge, huge, huge star. Somebody who had like a moment of cultural relevance, let's say, and then faded from most of the public's conscience, but -- Except for a few fans. And I love that -- I love the tension and thrill of reading about someone who seems almost like mine. Like watching The bastard on TV, as a 13-year-old, in my bedroom with a black and white TV, and just like swooning with thrills over this cheeseball TVs miniseries, but yet the next day walking through the school, halls of school, feeling like I'm Olivia Hussey and like a badass and like I'm just sort of like "What am I going to do with this?" I don't know -- It's just -- And then that's in your psyche and you grow up and you learn and you change and -- But yet, it's still there because the stuff that happens at that period of time -- And like Olivia Hussey was 16 when she did Romeo and Juliet. Like the whole thing about Romeo and Juliet in 1968 was to sort of cast actual age kids in the roles of Romeo and Juliet. But it's so impactful, like she said, she learned everything she knew about life from Juliet. [Inaudible].

[Crystal] I love that. I mean, I think that's very true. Like when you're growing up in your formative years, I guess. It's what's called -- Where those kinds of characters, movie media like really infiltrate your psyche and capture imagination in different kinds of ways and allow you to maybe like act out or try out different parts of yourself as you're trying to figure out who you really are. So I think that is great and I like the fact that like this is your idea of like comfort because it takes you back to that time and to those kinds of memories.

[Frank] And that time can't -- Doesn't hurt me as much anymore. Like the 14 year old doesn't hurt -- The memory of being 14 doesn't hurt as it used to. It feels, like I said before, it feels sort of like awe, sweet kid. And that's a nice feeling. But I remember all the turbulence and all the emotion tied up in it, but that's what brings us into comfort for now like, you know? And also, you know, I'm not a big happy ender with books. But like with these books, it's always nice -- Like Olivia Hussey finds a great deal of spiritualism and she talks about that journey and she played Mother Teresa in a movie later. She played the Virgin Mary in a miniseries called Jesus of Nazareth, which was a big deal at the time and she found her own way. And I sort of love that, you know? God -- She also had a -- She stayed in the -- This is terrible. She stayed in the house that Sharon Tate was killed in, in the late 60s. You know that story? You know, with the Charles Manson.

[Crystal] Yeah, yeah.

[Frank] And she -- See, that's another element I like about these books too, because I love reading between the lines and discovering things about the --

[Crystal] I said the murder.

[Frank] No, no. Things about the memoirs' personality that they might not know they're revealing or I feel like they don't think -- I don't think they know they're revealing. Like she writes about moving into that house for various reasons after those killings and -- And everyone's being like "How could you do that? How could you do that? How could you do that?" And she was like "I just felt nothing -- Like Sharon Tate was very much a beloved figure in Hollywood and a very sweet girl, apparently. She said she's felt like her sweet presence. I didn't feel anything else. And that says a lot about Olivia Hussey. You know, a lot of people are like "I'm not going to live there after these horrible, terrible, terrible killings." And Olivia Hussey was like "I just -- I just feel her goodness." And that's a -- That says something about their person [inaudible] I find really interesting.

[Crystal] And remembering the person too, yeah.

[Frank] Exactly. What a way to focus like on the good. And then, a lot of these memoirs also have another strain which is that these women usually are much stronger than they might make -- Well, that they might feel themselves. And I think it should -- This is the last thing I'll say, is the disparity between all of us. We feel hurt and scared and nervous, and like how do we live? And how do we do -- And then, of course, other people say "You look so confident. You look like you didn't care." And I'd be like "I was dying inside." So there's that. And then there's the other thing of feeling that way, but then also displaying true moments of willfulness. Like Olivia Hussey in this book has some couple of moments where she just takes a stand and says "This is the way it is." And, yeah, she doesn't say [inaudible] "I was a willful girl." She's like "I was scared and nervous and I can't believe I said that." But when you see it happen a couple of times, you realize you have a strength, a backbone here that you might never fully realize you have. And I sort of love seeing that between the lines, the behavior of these momentarily iconic figures in our -- In our past, like Olivia Hussey in The bastard. You got to go out and watch that now.

[Crystal] You keep saying The Bastard. Does that have to be [inaudible]?

[Frank] I don't know. I mean, it was in the 70s. A TV show in the 70s. It has to be ok now, right? I know. Maybe -- Maybe it will. I know. Here, actually, let's -- I'm going to -- [ Music ]

[Crystal] I really wish people who are listening can see how delighted your expression is as that was playing. It was so --

[Frank] I forgot you could see me.

[Crystal] You were so happy.

[Frank] That's so sweet that you noticed that. I wasn't conscious of displaying such joy, but yeah. I guess [inaudible] joy.

[Crystal] Such unfettered joy -- Unfettered and self-conscious joy.

[Frank] I mean, this is the depth of my obsession like -- Because I actually remember that opening theme to The Bastard so well. And that, because I was so obsessed with it, when it was repeated, I recorded the music that opened on a little cassette player just to play back and relive the feeling of like watching this cheeseball overly melodramatic miniseries.

[Crystal] And they say like your memory is really tied into your other senses too. Like taste for sure, but also like [inaudible] sounds, you know? So I am sure like the sound of that really does take you back. I will -- Shall I go into my book now?

[Frank] Yeah. Did you get cozy after all that?

[Crystal] Oh, yeah. I think [inaudible] like mentioned it. I took a very kind of literal approach to this. Should I read my passage first or give you more of a description?

[Frank] Read your passage. Let me see if I can orient my head.

[Crystal] You'll definitely be able to guess like, maybe not the title, but where this book is like situated and it's a little bit of a longer passage. "We all crowd around the trunk of the car. My breath catches, my chest painfully tight, not enough room for my lungs to expand and take in air. I think I might faint. As though sensing my near-panic, Ma pats my arm before opening the trunk. And there he is, just as I left him, lying in there with his long legs bent, knees at his waist, the hoodie covering his face. There is a mix of noises from my aunts. Big Aunt is tch-tching and shaking her head, muttering, this what happen when raise the son well. Fourth Aunt is staring open mouthed with what I can only describe as horrified glee, and second aunt is -- What are you doing, Second Aunt? She hardly glances at me as she goes into a deep lunge. Snake creeps through the grass, she mutters. What? She is doing Tai Chi, Ma says. Doctor tell her do it for high blood pressure. Uh. Ok. I suppose we all have our ways of dealing with stress. Fourth Aunt reaches toward the hoodie, and Ma smacks her hand. Ow! What? What do you think you're doing? Ma demands. Isn't it obvious? I want to see his face! Aiya! You so disrespectful. People already dead, you want to see his face for what? She's right, Mimi, Big Aunt says, gently. We try not to disturb him too much. I have to turn away from the body. The sight of it brings back the trauma of the accident, and I can't stop seeing flashes of Jake, again and again. Of him smiling, his hand on my knee. Now his hands are lying limply against his hips. Now what? Second Aunt says, going through her Tai Chi moves a lot faster than they call for. This boy so tall. How we get rid of him? She shudders before going into a different pose with arms outstretched. Maybe we can chop him up, cook some curry, then throw it away bit by bit? That's a lot of curry, Fourth Aunt says. My stomach lurches. Calm. Down. They're not being serious. They're not. They're just being their usual selves. Their usual murdery selves. What is going on right now? Maybe one of the Chinese dramas they are always watching is a crime show. Or maybe this is a mom thing. Once you have a kid, you lose the ability to be truly shocked by anything. I mean, this is not normal, right? Right?" I'll just like stop there because it does go on, so --

[Frank] Yeah. Does this have -- Does this book have like a -- Go ahead.

[Crystal] No, no, no, no. You go, you go.

[Frank] Is there a -- A Syfy fantasy element to this?

[Crystal] No. What makes you think that, though?

[Frank] Well, because they seem to be talking so casually about a dead person.

[Crystal] Yes, yes.

[Frank] Is that true?

[Crystal] Maybe, I think.

[Frank] There's a different world we're in that for whatever reason it's casual. But there seems to be a casual and that's startling not exactly cozy.

[Crystal] hundred percent, 100% I agree with you. But I do feel like it kind of falls into line with what this genre kind of is. When you did name the genre earlier and pass ink.

[Frank] Oh, really? Well, not a -- Oh, oh, well, a murder mystery? No? Ish? What?

[Crystal] But the word in front of mystery that you said earlier --

[Frank] Murder? A murder?

[Crystal] No, no. Oh, but the theme is about -- This whole show.

[Frank] Cozy murder?

[Crystal] Cozy mystery.

[Frank] [Inaudible] cozy murder? It's like you're sipping teas, you're stabbing something --

[Crystal] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Frank] Cozy mystery. Oh, but in China or Chinese? You said something --

[Crystal] I think, actually this may take -- I'm not sure about the setting. I think it does take place possibly in the -- Let's see, in maybe the U.S.

[Frank] What do you think? Didn't you read it?

[Crystal] I did read it. Maybe just kind of assumed it was in America, but to be honest I think the author is maybe based in Singapore, possibly.

[Frank] I don't know. It -- But it's a Chinese America.

[Crystal] I think it is America. I actually think it is America.

[Frank] What do you even think? When did you last read this book?

[Crystal] A while ago.

[Frank] Oh, ok. That's fine. Because I did read the Olivia Hussey book a couple of years ago when it was -- Came out, but I reacquainted myself [inaudible].

[Crystal] Oh, it is in America. It is in America because they reference a bunch of colleges. I totally forgot. Ok. And they talk about New York.

[Frank] So they kill --

[Crystal] My memory [inaudible]. Ok.

[Frank] Was there a bad situation when, when, when she said -- She, I'm assuming it's a she speaking. When she said he had his hand on her knee, is that a bad -- That was bad.

[Crystal] It was an accident to murder. Yes.

[Frank] Oh, but he wasn't abusing her or inappropriate.

[Crystal] I think he was possibly about to -- So [inaudible] go more into this. So like my understanding of cozy mysteries and I have like not read a ton of cozy mysteries, but I think generally it follows like certain tropes and some of those tropes is it, a young woman who is like solving a case who is sort of an amateur, not like a professional detective or anything like that, and usually the villain is somebody who -- Not the villain, but like maybe the person like deserved to die in some ways and I think this story kind of sets that up a little bit too. But also like the [inaudible] -- The book is Dial A for Aunties by Jesse Q. Sutanto. Have you heard of that book?

[Frank] No, I mean, the title alone says it "Alright, this isn't going to be too hard. Harsh." [Inaudible] the whole auntie thing, I got right away. I mean, obviously --

[Crystal] There's so many aunts in there, right?

[Frank] And they're -- Are they the crime solvers, the aunties?

[Crystal] They kind of work together. So like they are -- [Inaudible] this young woman, Meddelin Chan. She lives with her Ma and her three aunts, and their names are like Big Aunt, Second Aunt. And she calls her mom, mom. Fourth Aunt and then -- It's also in Chinese too. Like, you know, it's like [inaudible], like the Big Sister, you know, [foreign language]. And they are -- Like she accidentally, on a blind date, kills this person and her aunts basically help her cover up and [inaudible] like hijinks into -- And I will say, towards the end, especially because -- I mean, again, you have to suspend some element of disbelief because the [inaudible] essentially [inaudible] they have a corpse, right? They have to [inaudible] this like wedding, they be -- Bring this body with them, they try to hide it and it really starts to lean into like Weekend at Bernie's, like [inaudible]. But the reason why I did choose this book because -- I mean, I think this one sits also right on the cusp of mystery and romance because there is this romantic storyline of this -- I think when she was younger, she was in a relationship with this guy named Nathan. And then, it didn't work out due to just standard -- I would say standard communication issues, which is one of those things about romance stories that are like "If you just talked about it, probably it would just be fine." But then, there wouldn't be a story situation. And then, he like reappears in her life. And then, she has just kind to solve this sort of mystery that [inaudible] with the corpse. And it's just kind of like it's a lot of hijinks, a lot like funny stuff, especially with the aunts in their own very distinctive personalities. But the reason why I chose this book and the reason why I thought it was cozy -- Actually, initially I was thinking about Pride and Prejudice because that is a book thinking about what you were saying about books that you read when you were younger, that's a book that I've like reread a lot and I remember like it was a comfort read for me when I was young. Like the humor aspect, the romance aspect and I thought like when you start reading a page or like brain is like "Oh, yes. I remember all of this. This is going to be great." And you're just like there for the ride. And so, I was looking for something that had some similar aspects. I also think, with mystery -- Like maybe I talked about this before, about like my idea of like mystery and horror, those genres being very diametrically opposed because I think like horror is something that really like introduce these elements of chaos into the world and that's very disconcerting. Whereas mystery does the opposite, where it takes those little introductions of chaos and like draw them altogether. And by the end, like there's a sense of order and harmony again. And I like that kind of when you have the detective like "Oh, this seems weird here and this other thing seems weird." And you put it all together and a certain amount of logic goes through and then you're like "Ok. Everything has come to rights again, right?" So I -- I really enjoy that. And I also think it's -- I think I when I was reading this, it was like a mix of listening to it through an audiobook and then also reading the text, which is very interesting too because in the audiobook the narrator -- They do -- Like they do different accents too and I found this book to be interesting too because, you know, when I read it, I'm reading it with the way the text is presented, with this kind of like quote-unquote, like broken English, right? But I did want to read the author's note about that because the author is Chinese-Indonesian and talks about how her grandparents are Chinese, they immigrated to the -- To Indonesia. Sorry, I'm looking this up in my -- I had it on [inaudible]. They immigrated to Indonesia between 1920 and 1930. They changed their Chinese names to Indonesian ones to avoid xenophobia. So Chan became Sutanto, who became [inaudible] -- I'm probably mispronouncing that. So in the last -- One of the later paragraphs of the author's note, she writes "Some of the aunties in Dial A for Aunties speak the sort of broken English that my parents' generation does. Their grasp of the English language is not a reflection of their intelligence but a reflection of the sacrifice that they have made for us. They are, in essence, trilingual and I am so proud of that heritage." And I really like that aspect of this book too and the way she kind of puts a very like fine point about that in the beginning, right? Because I feel like often times and I don't know, like people will see other folks who are learning English as a second language as like just because their English is so called broken, that's a reflection of their intelligence or the complexity of their minds too. And I think that's such a like wrong way to think about it and I think it also makes me think a lot about like library work in general and how we try to provide these kinds of services to people who do like speak different languages, who are perhaps learning English as a second language. I've had teens who have like expressed -- -- like shame that their English was like not as good as other people and it's just sort of like, well, you know, you know two languages which is really impressive, which is more than like what many English speakers or native English speakers know, right? So, I don't know. I felt like those --

[Frank] What's interesting about -- What? Say it again.

[Crystal] Oh, I just said I felt those aspects to be really interesting about this book.

[Frank] [Inaudible] a reader at the library once pointed out to me a book I won't mention, but like how one character had -- Was written in dialect and I didn't even notice it. And the reader was sort of outraged because she was like "Everybody has an accent." Like everybody has some -- Some quirk of the way they speak. You know if it's written is like "Hello. Did you go to the store today and pick up milk and eggs?" Like that's how it's written. Not everyone said -- Like, you know, you could say that a million different ways. Like "Hello. Did you -- And you could stutter. I mean, so how you explain that in a book is a choice but the point about like how one character was in dialect just suddenly seemed weird to me like. Like -- And I feel like you have to really walk that line when you choose to write in dialect. And I think what you said about the author's note actually, did it come across when you're actually reading the book too or did you need that author's note to understand that point?

[Crystal] I mean, that's an interesting thing because like as I'm listening to it and reading it in my head, I did not like feel it as much. But look, I will say I stopped reading author's note before this other line, which I think you just like went on about or like touched on really well which is -- After I said they're -- As a [inaudible] I'm so proud of this heritage, she writes "I'm aware while I'm writing this, that I'm straddling a very fine line between authenticity and stereotype and it's my hope that this book defies the latter, right?" And I feel like, you know, as I was reading it out loud, I felt like there are certain elements where I'm just like reminded of some stereotypes, where you see in media, in the portrayals of people who are speaking English as a second language and I think that this book does like navigate that well because it's coming from a place of authenticity. But as I was saying, I did too myself be like triggered a little bit [inaudible] too, in some ways. But, yeah. Also side note, what you were saying about the dialects and and that reader -- I did want to mention as kind of, not necessarily like a read alike, but there was a -- There is a book that came out recently, I believe, or maybe will be out soon. It's a graphic novel called Himawari House by Harmony Becker. Do you remember that book They called us enemy by George Takei?

[Frank] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Crystal] Harmony Becker is the artist for that book and they created their own graphic novel about this Japanese American student that goes to Japan to attend Japanese school with these other students who are like [inaudible] native to Japan. And there's -- It's written in a lot of different dialects, including -- I forget the name of one dialect but it's like a mix of English and maybe Singaporian too. And the purpose behind the book in many ways is to kind of illuminate that sort of complexity of people's experiences where like having a dialect or having an accent or having the so-called, like broken English is more like a definition of who they are. It's like really embraced in a lot of ways and I think it's really beautiful. I think it offers that glimpse into what is like to take on a second language and the challenges of that, you know? But I don't know, that's a great book.

[Frank] Oh, actually speaking of that, a similar book to the one I read is another memoir that was my mind of a Hollywood actress, but she's also French, is Leslie Caron and her memoir is Thank Heaven. And she became famous in the 50s for An American in Paris with Gene Kelly and she also most famously played Gigi in the late 50s, which is a big, huge musical success and she writes about her career at MGM, a famous Hollywood studio in the 50s. And she was from France and she came to Hollywood like when she was 18 years old. She was a ballet dancer and danced, and then became an actress but also grew up in France during World War II. But that's a different memoir than Olivia Hussey's. She's -- Leslie Caron is a little more continental, a little more French. She is a little more like "Darlings, I was a big star and now it's like -- After the facelifts, the husbands and the booze, I'm a survivor. But I'm a survivor, baby." Not to be insulting --

[Crystal] Oh, boy. [Inaudible] stereotype --

[Frank] [Inaudible] dialects. I just -- To the comic effect at Leslie Caron's expense and I apologize. Leslie Caron is actually 20 years older than Olivia Hussey. She's 90 now and she's from a generation before that, but that's another memoir that's on my mind. I've read a lot of them. But that has to do with language too because -- Go ahead.

[Crystal] Which one was -- Which is the best memoir and why is it Mariah Carey's?

[Frank] I know. I know. It's funny when you had suggested reading Mariah Carey before, I was like "Oh, ok." But I was sort of -- Because she is not far enough in the past. I sort of want [inaudible] through it as a genre. Ike --

[Crystal] So which one is your most, like personally, the one that you like the most?

[Frank] Well, of the two I just mentioned or ever?

[Crystal] No, no, no. Of all those celebrity memoirs that you've read in life.

[Frank] Well, there -- Wow -- There is one -- So [inaudible] in a weird way -- Because it's personal, it means something but it sounds so trivial, but it's not. Do you know Shelley Winters?

[Crystal] The name sounds really familiar.

[Frank] She wrote a -- She wrote a memoir that I read when I was like 16. She was [inaudible]. She was in a lot of movies in the 50s and 60s and 70s onward. She died about 12 years ago but she wrote a memoir called Shelley also known as Shirley and it's sort of like the -- It's the most fun because she's a very funny person, period. And, you know, she's a Brooklyn Jew and she's like hey! She's this great. And, you know, with like New York, I can probably identify. And she's very hilarious and she named names at all her lovers, which is another thing in these books like Olivia Hussey and Leslie Caron. Sometimes they'll be a little bit like "You know, well, I was lonely and the director of photography came up, buy for a drink and we -- It was a nothing experience, but we spent a weekend together." And then, next thing. I'm like "Wait, what happened there?" And Shelley would just sort of -- Gets into it a little more. But -- It's interesting about sex. We can go all over the place with this. Louise Brooks is a famous silent actress, [inaudible] actress. She became a huge cult figure in European cinema and American cinema -- Cineast. But she was always asked to write her memoir. She never did because she "To write a true story of one's life you have to be brutally honest to yourself about your love life and sex life, basically." Like that's such a core part of us that you cannot address that, you can't tell the story, the real story of your life. There's too many gaps in like choices made, why were those choices made, because usually it has to do with love or sex. And so, that's an interesting thing about the morality of these books. Sometimes it's like the women who are pretty honest don't always want to go there because it's -- I mean, who could -- How could any of us? Anyway, Shelley Winters is hilarious and that was from 1980. It's out of print. On the library [inaudible] copies. But --

[Crystal] The library [inaudible] that many copies? No!

[Frank] It's hilarious. But I was obsessed with that book. Again, right when I was a teenager -- What?

[Crystal] I said we have an interlibrary loan. I should interlibrary loan this book.

[Frank] Or I can -- I have a copy. It's my original.

[Crystal] A treasured possession.

[Frank] Oh, my God. I still like pull it out and like, you know, read a line or two. Let's talk about cozy. It's like "Oh, right. I remember that." And I could still read it over and over, like with different moments of it, just ruminating on Shelley Winters. Olivia Hussey, Leslie Caron, Caron -- Oh, dear. Well, there it is. I don't know. I laid it there. But before you ASMR me --

[Crystal] I forgot to say too that I think Dial A for Aunties and I know some might say aunties and some might say aunties. I don't know. Aunts, aunts, whatever. But I think it is going to be like a Netflix movie. So -- And people are into that.

[Frank] Is there a series of books, like A, B, C, D?

[Crystal] You know what? I think I did see there was maybe a sequel possibly involving her wedding. Is that a spoiler? I guess it's not a spoiler [inaudible] romance.

[Frank] Well, they go alphabetically. B could be b is for the bastards and Olivia Hussey could play one of the aunties. There we go. I just got a part for Olivia Hussey. Olivia Hussey is part Argentinian.

[Crystal] Oh, really?

[Frank] [Inaudible] means.

[Crystal] There's another book called Four Aunties, no wedding, which I am assuming is a sequel to this. Yes, [inaudible] for aunties. So -- Yeah. But I was going to say, did we decide what we're going to read next time? Just the free-for-all?

[Frank] Yeah. [Inaudible] something cozy. Yeah, free-for-all, baby. And we should say that we're also, just for the heck of it, we're going to, in the New Year, we're going to look towards having guests again from the New York Public Library, as we continue reopening, and just to sort of talk to people in the library world, which we haven't done in a while, which I'm looking forward to. So we're working on that right now and then maybe we'll even be in the same studio. We're still separate. We've never been in the same studio, you and I.

[Crystal] Yeah, never.

[Frank] Same -- Same room.

[Crystal] I don't even know how that's going to work because then you'll be a [inaudible] ASMR object. So --

[Frank] Good. Maybe I'll have to stop doing it and I can just play music. I think I'm going to play music from now on and whenever I feel like --

[Crystal] You should. [Inaudible] feel like running out of objects in a lot of ways, which is insane because there's a lot of things here. But wait. I don't -- Why on the -- Why was I putting this close to my ear? There's no mic on this headphone. I should do a [inaudible] computer.

[Frank] Is that the noise?

[Crystal] Is it a noise?

[Frank] It sounds like a wrapper.

[Crystal] This sounds like construction.

[Frank] I know, I'm sorry. And not a rapper like a singer, but like a gum wrapper or a lozenge wrapper.

[Crystal] Yeah. I didn't, at any point, think that you meant rapper like a singer. Because, why would I have this in this office in my hands?

[Frank] Beauty. I just hear construction.

[Frank] Yeah, sorry. I can hear it. [Inaudible]. Wait, is that a different object now?

[Crystal] No, it's the same object. It was in the bag before, I've taken them out of the bag. I will say that they're edible.

[Frank] Does the bag pertain to what the subject is or is it just a holder?

[Crystal] Sure. It's a holder but I think it's conceptually [inaudible] what this object is.

[Frank] Is it a hard candy?

[Crystal] It is hard sometimes.

[Frank] Does it melt in your mouth?

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] So it's a candy that you suck on and then it melts in your mouth.

[Crystal] Yeah, sure. Here, I'll show you. It's a bag of chocolate coins.

[Frank] Oh, oh. Is it gelts?

[Crystal] Was it?

[Frank] Is it Hanukkah gelts, darling?

[Crystal] I don't think I know what that is.

[Frank] That's chocolate coins for Hanukkah. I forgot why you hide them.

[Crystal] Maybe that's why there -- Because I always see them in the holidays and I didn't really -- Yes, and I didn't really understand why. It just says -- I shouldn't say that. It's coins of the world, I'll say.

[Frank] That's one way of putting it. Coins of the world.

[Crystal] Free advertising to this company.

[Frank] What is that doing in the library? Why are they giving out chocolate?

[Crystal] That's because I have a snack drawer. You're welcome to come by and write a like [inaudible] thread --

[Frank] We have -- If we ever go back into the -- Oh, go into the studio.

[Crystal] Gummy bears, dried mangoes --

[Frank] Really? You take care of your colleagues, don't you? You must be the most popular girl on the floor.

[Crystal] No, I don't think so.

[Frank] You like gummy bears, just not a popular girl make. You got to bring a little bit more to the party than gummy bears, Crystal.

[Crystal] Yeah. Exactly, right?

[Frank] But I'd say gummy bears, those are far away. There she is, shaking it up.

[Crystal] Shaking my gold coins.

[Frank] So, darlings, we read The girl on the balcony, Olivia Hussey finds life after Romeo and Juliet by Olivia Hussey. And, Crystal, you read As aunties --

[Crystal] No, Dial A for Aunties by Jesse Sutanto.

[Frank] Sutanto. Dial A for Aunties by Jesse Sutanto. Ok. I guess cozy, right? Ish.

[Crystal] Yeah. Cozy, humorous and fun. Relaxing, yes.

[Frank] I know there must be something oppositional in me where when I finally realized I had to discuss something cozy I was like furious.

[Crystal] Wow.

[Frank] Maybe like with -- Psychologically [inaudible] into something like -- I don't know. I feel like I can't turn my head off a lot to feel cozy. I thought of that too. Like the only time I really can remember ever feeling cozy is when I was really sick. Like when you get really sick and not when you're really sick where it's scary, but when you know you're getting better but you're not well enough to really do anything. So that's probably the only time -- Usually my brain is just focussed on -- I allow myself just to watch stupid TV and just chillax, but otherwise I can't. I have to read something that's volatile but in the past and that doesn't hurt me anymore, but there has to be that volatility.

[Crystal] That could be -- That could be the new theme -- The -- You know, we'll read something volatile.

[Frank] And then, I'll probably end up finding the truest cozy book ever because I'll go the opposite direction. [Inaudible] drama. Well, this was a pleasure. Are you done, baby?

[Crystal] Yes.

[Frank] Even talking.

[Crystal] Yes, Sir. I am done. I'm not going to call you baby. I'm just going to call you Sir.

[Frank] [Inaudible], baby? Yes, Sir. Well, this was fun. I was sort of nervous about -- I don't know why, but I was. So, anyway, thank you everybody for listening and catch us the next time when it's a major free-for-all for what we're going to read. Who knows what it's going to be? Tune in to find out.

[Narrator] Thanks for listening to The librarian is in, a podcast by the New York Public Library. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple podcast or Google play, or send us an email at podcasts@nypl.org. For more information about the New York Public Library, please visit nypl.org. We are produced by Christine Ferrell. Your hosts are Frank Collerius and Crystal Chen.