Welcome to The Librarian Is In, The New York Public Library's podcast about books, culture, and what to read next.

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Hey, all. Thanks for joining us for another episode. Rhonda wasn't able to join us this week, but Frank asked Young Adult Librarian Susen Shi to join him on the podcast to discuss some great options for YA reading. They talked about the newly renovated Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library branch, YA books, fairy tales and more. Susen and Frank also bring back a round of the guessing game! Can you figure out which books Susen is quoting before Frank does?
 

Susen's first recommendation is the graphic novel. Dragon Hoops by Gene Luen Yang. He also wrote American Born Chinese.

 

 

 

Her next recommendation is Dark and Deepest Red by Anna-Maria McLemore.

Susen also discussed Felix Ever After by Kacen Callender.

After the taping, Susen emailed us with even more recommendations that we hope you'll check out:

• Harley in the Sky by Akemi Dawn Bowman
• Green Lantern: Legacy by Minh Le (children)
• A Phoenix First Must Burn: Sixteen Stories of Black Girl Magic, Resistance, and Hope edited by Patrice Caldwell
• Clap When You Land by Elizabeth Acevedo
• All Boys Aren't Blue: A Memoir-Manifesto by George M Johnson

And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie

 

 

 

 

 

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Tell us what everybody's talking about in your world of books and libraries! Suggest Hot Topix(TM)! Send an email or voice memo to podcasts[at]nypl.org.

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Transcript

[Music]

[Frank] Hello, and welcome to the Librarian Is In, the New York Public Library's podcast about books, culture and what to read next. I'm Frank. And I don't hear Rhonda because Rhonda is actually not here today. I hope you're not too disappointed. She's actually very busy at the Schaumburg Center, the library where she works, working on various projects that I'm sure no doubt exciting. And that she'll let us know about later on but she needed to take the day off and -- well, not today off -- to take it off, she's actually working really hard. So it's just me. Or is it? I actually thought it would be a great idea to invite a colleague in the New York Public Library who could speak a little bit about young adult books, which is not something that Rhonda and I read that often sometimes, but not as often as -- actually we probably like, and see what's going on in the world of YA. So, I thought of one of the most glamorous individuals that I know and her name is Susen Shi. And she's a young adult librarian at the brand new Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library, which was once the Mid-Manhattan Library, the biggest circulating library and the New York Public Library System. It was supposed to have a big grand opening in May and sort of know what happened there. But it is open now for a grab-and-go service where people can pick up holds. And that's a good thing. So, I thought I'd invite this gal because she also -- I also worked with her on Sundays at my library, Jefferson Market, and I found her to be an -- she's probably going to hate this, but -- because I'm building up too much, but a great book recommender. I mean, I've never saw a patron she dealt with not walk out with a book or more. And I was always very impressed. So please, everybody, welcome Susen Shi.

[Susen] Hi. Hello.

[Frank] Hi.

[Susen] Hey, Frank.

[Frank] It's been a long time.

[Susen] It has. I don't know if I remember what you look like anymore.

[Frank] Oh, well, that's probably a good thing. Just stick with me however you'd like to in the best possible light.

[Susen] OK.

[Frank] But I do remember working with you and show us to say you've been on the podcast before.

[Susen] I have, I have, one of the earlier episodes.

[Frank] Exactly when we first started, but that's why I thought of you. And also, I'm serious, when we worked together on Sundays when we had Sunday hours, you were just great with the public like all age levels, like you could recommend titles from adult Y and children's. And I personally find that difficult because I don't feel like I know enough about certainly children's, but you are a young adult librarian.

[Susen] I am.

[Frank] Correct? Yes.

[Susen] Yeah. Yes. I work specifically with teens at SNFL.

[Frank] SNFL, which is, as I mentioned before, the new big --

[Susen] Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library.

[Frank] Foundation Library, which is catty-cornered to the famous 42nd Street library, the world famous research library. So, you're a big deal over there, I guess, everything's happening. So you are open and you're there. How has it been for you?

[Susen] It's been interesting. The building itself is really, really gorgeous. It's a drastic change from, you know, the former Mid-Manhattan Library.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] You know, great lighting, you know, really, really airy and open, some great art installations are in there. Really, really excited, you know, for the -- for everyone to see what it looks like when we will open, you know, fully under the appropriate guidelines. And, you know, it's -- like you said, we're only open for grab-and-go services. So, you know, place a hold online and come by and just pick up your holds. Everything is contact list. You don't have to worry about anything. Just grab and go. It's been interesting, you know, it's very, very limited services, not what we normally do. And it's -- You know, having those patron interaction is sort of what we love and not having that really sort of feel like there's a sense of loss in that.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] You know, not having that face to face but, you know, we're doing what we can virtually. I really miss our teams.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] Have you been able to keep in touch with any of them online or are there any YA programs that you're up to or?

[Susen] Yeah, yeah, we know you -- we email those that we have contacts for to check in just to see how they're doing or doing a whole bunch of, you know, great Verso programmings online. We just recently wrapped up our community conversations where we -- you know, we chat with an organization that works specifically with teams or can offer resources for teams on the NYPL team's Instagram. We are holding our second power to the youth town hall, where some of our teens will be talking with council people. And our next topic is voting and the youth vote.

[Frank] Oh, is it -- You said power to you?

[Susen] Power to the youth.

[Frank] Power to the youth.

[Susen] Yeah. Yeah.

[Frank] So, is this 18 year olds that can vote or younger?

[Susen] So some -- So it's actually the teens that are on there are some of our teens and some of them have turned 18 but others are not at that age yet. But it's really about, you know, talking about what you can do, how important their voting is and what other avenues are available for them if they are not able to vote as of yet. Yeah, our very first one was on freedom of speech and the power of protest and anti-racist like legislation. And it was really, really amazing. It was a really great turnout. And so I'm very excited to see how the second one will go. I'm really proud of our teams who are leading this. They're amazing, amazing people. And I'm really glad to see that they are out there, you know, making a difference.

[Frank] Yeah, I mean, you've got a really strong team over there too at the library. And it's great to hear and it's so perfect what libraries do and do well is be incredibly reactive to what's happening in the moment and letting their people, our people, our library people talk about and express those hot-button issues about what's going on. I love that so much actually. Community conversations program is such a great program. But I know you've got a great team over there, as I said, and like what's -- what -- and there is a designated team space at the new library, what how is that going?

[Susen] It's amazing. In our new team space, we have a recording studio.

[Frank] Really?

[Susen] Yes. Yeah.

[Frank] Oh my god, I can sing.

[Susen] I know, I know, I'm so excited [inaudible] to autotune me so that I sound like I can sing. We have Dara who is our digital media instructor who will be overseeing this, he's amazing and great. And he's been leading the series of classes online as well. And I'm, you know, really excited to see what we can do with that.

[Frank] Wait, so you have a recording studio and you, like, have software, what -- see, I don't even know, software and stuff that you can autotune and actually like really professionally do stuff?

[Susen] Yeah, I mean, you know, this is not -- I don't know a lot about this aspect or any of the equipment. I'm sure Dara can tell you all about it. But, yeah, we have like, you know, like a legit studio where you can come and record, autotune, do all of those little fancy things.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] Yeah, it's really, really cool. I'm really excited to try it out. And then maybe eventually I'll become a superstar. Who knows?

[Frank] Hey, I mean, if anyone's going to be, it's going to be you, because you have that unique too, that unique name which I love, the Susen thing with your S-U-S-E-N, which I find lovably wonderful. I love that.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] It's just a unique little twist on the Susan thing. And you said your mom like named you that because it was like -- she thought it would be cool like a sort of twist on the regular Susan or she didn't know how to spell it.

[Susen] I don't know if she knew how to spell it. I think she sounded it out. And I believe Susan is spelled with the a, I think awesome means Lily, which is her English name.

[Frank] Oh, really?

[Susen] Yes.

[Frank] Oh, well, it's just so unique and I think it's fantastic. I can't wait until we all can safely reopen fully. I mean, especially with all the big doings that they were -- the library was going to do for the opening of your library, which spent a couple of years under construction. And I know there was going to be a big to do in May. So, hey, that's what happens. We'll get there when we get there. But I am looking forward to seeing it. I haven't been there yet.

[Susen] Oh, really?

[Frank] No.

[Susen] OK, you should definitely drop by. Yeah, you know, this grand reopening has been in the plans for so long and, you know, 2020 happens and that's OK. We are still opened in some capacity. We're still, you know, welcoming patrons back.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] And in the safest way that we can. And, you know, maybe next year when we will fully reopened or whenever that will happen, according to our guidelines, we'll be very excited to see everyone.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] For sure. I mean, I've just started my library, Jefferson Market is not open yet, but I -- I've started working at the Hudson Park Library, which is in the West Village. They needed some help. And it's been like you said, welcoming back the patrons. It's been -- I've only been there a little while but I will be there consistently from now on. Very -- It felt like -- I mean, that library, in particularly, even though it's in Manhattan, is far west. It almost feels like it's in a small village. Whereas Jefferson Market is right on the avenue but it even felt more so when I work there now because people -- it just felt like a small town feel. People are very grateful and very happy to see us open again. Very respectful of the parameters we have to work under. And, you know, parenthetically, like I went into my local, like, coffee place deli that just reopened after four or five months. And the owner was there and said, like, oh, it's so nice to see you to me. And very sweet and genuine, of course, like probably eager to have business come back. And I know it's been slow for all of us, but just that feeling of, you know, we want to survive, but also just glad to see people again. So, I don't know, it was a good feeling all around in the neighborhood and I hope it continues. I hope we've done our due diligence so far. I mean, the library certainly has and I have to -- have nothing but praise the library that it's caution and concern as it reopens. But, you know, in terms of global or national diligence that we're actually on the right track, but hey, we're in the middle of history.

[Susen] Yes, exactly. And --

[Frank] don't want like -- Yeah.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] Go ahead. And I think the patrons are very happy to be -- for us to be opened in some sort of capacity as they have passed along that they're very happy to see it. You know, we're -- we are happy to see them. You know, it's, a different sort of way of librarianing it --

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] -- without patrons. But, you know, we were just sort of using more of our brain to figure it out and it's been interesting to sort of see what, you know, wonderful programmings have been pushed out by, you know, our amazing colleagues across the system. I know specifically young adult, there's great, great virtual programmings happening that can be found on our website. You know, there's tons of book discussions, trivia, you know, drawing. There's anti-prom in the Bronx and in Staten Island.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Susen] So, we're -- you know, we're out there doing what we can under the circumstances.

[Frank] Yeah. I mean, I sort of hate when people say like, oh -- or when institutions indicate what the new normal will be like that phrase new normal. I mean, hate is a strong word. But that idea that there was ever really a normal in a way, that's just my perspective. But what I -- So I don't want to like label it as a whole new frontier. What I like to think about especially with our work as librarians is that it's just constantly reacting to people's needs, to community's needs and to what people might need and try again. Like always try things out and see if it works. Try different technologies to contact people. I mean, I resisted and was it shell shocked the first couple of months about the fact that I can only communicate with the public through technology that I was all about the one on one or people interaction that I just didn't do it until later in June and then did some programs like book discussions and other programs online. And it's been very satisfying just to see people again and hear their gratitude that we're offering these quality programs, these programs that are responding to their needs, even though I still prefer, you know, touching the shoulder and saying, hi of someone, you know, just human contact like that. But, hey, like you said, we're -- we are reactive. We're doing the best we can and we're trying new things.

[Susen] Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're learning as we're going. And, you know, we're taking the time to really listen to our community as to see what they would like for us to do or what we can do during this time.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] Absolutely.

[Susen] But --

[Frank] I definitely want to do some classes on politics before November, like what you're doing with the teens about the voting and First Amendment and things like that. I think it's really so important on the run up to the election to talk about these things, so.

[Susen] Yes, absolutely.

[Frank] Good for you using [inaudible].

[Susen] I work with an amazing team, you know, and -- you know, I only do so much, you know, we are well-oiled unit. And we bounce and feed ideas off of each other. You know, I really do. I have a wonderful team.

[Frank] I believe it. All right, I want to get to some recommendations here because I know you got them.

[Susen] Yeah, I do. You know, I had to sit down and take a lot to think about what books I wanted to recommend.

[Frank] OK. But also just to make sure that they were published.

[Susen] Yes.

[Frank] Yes. That's helpful.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] So people can get it.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] And basically some young adult titles, right?

[Susen] Yes. Yes, absolutely.

[Frank] So knock me with your first one, I want to hear.

[Susen] All right. All right. So my first one is a "Dragon Hoops" by Gene Luen Yang. And this is a graphic memoir about the -- about a California men's varsity basketball team as they attempt to win the state championship, which is a goal that they have always been so close to, but never actually reached. And Yang coupled this with his own professional journey as a comic creator. Yang also writes "Superman". And so this all sort of centers around the time when he's trying to figure out, you know, writing this comic as well as him being a teacher. And this is classic Yang with all the cartoon illustrations. And as we go with the California men's varsity basketball team, which is the Bishop O'Dowd's Dragon. As we're going along with their journey to this championship, we also find out about the history of basketball and this intersection of race and gender. And then interesting way, even for someone like me who don't normally watch sport or is interested in sport, I mean, my ideal sport is foosball.

[Frank] Is what?

[Susen] Is foosball. Foosball. Yeah. Yeah, I don't understand sports a lot. But I was so interested in basketball in "Dragon Hoops". It's -- There's so much history there that I didn't even realize. But what makes this book really special is the personal stories of the men on the team and their journey on the Dragons. And I -- You get so invested in the players as individuals, but also as teammates. And, you know, after I'd finished reading this book, I may have been a little stalkerish. But I'm going to take this as just a very interested person that I looked up the folks on the team.

[Frank] Really?

[Susen] Just who were -- they were and just to see how their journey ended.

[Frank] And so this -- the -- Yang is the author you said of "Dragon Hoops". He -- What is the graphic novel memoir set, like what time?

[Susen] So this is -- Oh boy, this is definitely in the 2000s.

[Frank] OK.

[Susen] Very recent because he just came out with the "Superman" a couple of years ago. So all within the last, I will say, six years.

[Frank] So you wanted to see how these team members evolved since the -- in the events of the book?

[Susen] Yes. Yeah. Just to see where they've gone after high school.

[Frank] Wow, they must have been very vividly drawn.

[Susen] They were, they were. You know, it's -- Yang has this way of really delving deep into the persona of his characters and making readers feel really, really invested in them. And this book, particularly, and I don't know if he's done this with his other graphic novels, he breaks the fourth wall and talks to you and he take you through sort of his creative process of writing this. And it's a really interesting look. And I really can see this being used as sort of an educational tool about how comics come about and why things are drawn or written the way that they are. And not so necessarily in time order.

[Frank] Right.

[Susen] But, yeah, in this height of the game itself, all the basketball games that the Dragons go on are so -- they're so visual and it feels like you're there and you're rooting for the Dragons. Like I would -- After this book, I would attend a basketball game.

[Frank] That's [inaudible]. That's high praise. Wow. I mean, that's such an interesting combination of like -- with I'm getting you right, like writing about this basketball team and their adventures and also at the same time writing about why we draw or do graphic novels or the process of creating graphic novels. Is that correct?

[Susen] Yeah. As well as, you know, his own sort of struggles with his, you know, his journey himself.

[Frank] Really, interesting.

[Susen] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, really, really excellent, really well done. I mean, Yang is an amazing creator and artist. He was, I think, a former National Ambassador for young adult literature. The current one is Jason Reynolds, who's also amazing. Yeah, he's one of my favorites. And I always look forward to anything he writes.

[Frank] OK. What's his full name again.

[Susen] Gene Luen Yang.

[Frank] Oh, I do know of him. So actually a good recommendation for actually kids who don't even like sports that much.

[Susen] Yeah, yeah, I think they're really good for non-sports reader, really good for reluctant readers because it's more than just sports. It's also about friendship and teammates and, you know, the community that you are in and how that comes together. It's so much more than sports. But the sport aspect in this is really well done.

[Frank] "Dragon Hoops", that remind -- maybe we should start our own pickup basketball team.

[Susen] The last time I play basketball, I threw a ball off the back and it hit me straight in my face. Yeah, I'm very [inaudible].

[Frank] I mean, all my life, people have asked me growing up like, do you play basketball because I'm like 6'3.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] There's always a thing of like, no, like, I felt like I was disappointing people. I mean, I'm not that tall. But I guess tall enough for people --

[Susen] You're pretty tall, right.

[Frank] Yeah, I mean -- You know, I think I should read it to sort of like come to terms with the basketball issue. The fact that I never did it. I love it. What is -- What are some of the other titles by Gene Yang?

[Susen] "American Born Chinese" --

[Frank] That's [inaudible]. That's the one I -- Yeah.

[Susen] Yes.

[Frank] OK. I knew I knew it. I read that one. It was great. It was fantastic.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] I loved it. That's like 10 years ago.

[Susen] Yeah. Yeah. And it's still -- You know, really, it's still on, you know, reading lists and coolest list because it's a classic. It's that good.

[Frank] It is.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] I totally agree. I remember that -- the Y librarian at Jefferson Market 10 years ago book talk that one and I saw her talk about it. And I read it because of that book talk. So, Gene Yang. Absolutely great. Good. Oh, good. I'm glad I know at least something about the Y world you're discussing. And --

[Susen] OK.

[Frank] -- more, more, more, more.

[Susen] More.

[Frank] More.

[Susen] The "Dark and Deepest Red" by Anna-Marie McLemore, which is, I would say, a history and fantasy novel and it's towed from two different timelines, one set during modern time, where our two main characters' lives intertwine. Rosella's family are shoemakers and they're known for their beauty and their magical craftsmanships. And so when she decides to put together some old scraps to make red shoes, she finds that she can't stop dancing or take them off. Emil is descended from the family who was blamed for this affliction when it happened half a millennia ago. And so as we read more into sort of the story of Rosella and Emil, we're also introduced to Lala, who is a Romani who was blamed for this dancing curse in Strasbourg, you know, in 1518, because of the color of her skin and, you know, her natural talents for making sort of these natural remedies. And this is, you know, a retelling of Hans Andersen's "The Red Shoes". Do you happen to know that story?

[Frank] Yes, I was going to -- When you said red shoes, I was going to say is it based on the fairy tale.

[Susen] Yes, yes. But -- Yeah. But it's a story that's more than just, you know, the fairy tale. It's a story about being seen as less than of taking that hate and internalizing it and causing harm to oneself. And, you know, the inability to be one's true self. But it's also a story of love and family and strength and acceptance and the writing in this is so, so lush and gorgeous that I have to stop and, you know, read over the same paragraphs just to really, really sink into it. Yeah, it's really -- They really set the scene and you really feel like you're there in Strasbourg. But you feel like you're transported to another place. It's highly, highly recommended. There's great, great LGBTQ representation in this. McLemore does, you know, her writing is really amazing. And I am a sucker for anything fairy tale related.

[Frank] Yeah, me too. Mythology fairy tales, I love when people go to the -- that sort of old -- ancient, older like source material, like these sort of iconic stories or, what's the word, not archaic, that means older. What's the word, like, iconic. It's that Carl Jung word, archetypal --

[Susen] OK, yeah.

[Frank] -- stories but it's a deep -- what is it, a dark deep red, a deepest, darkest red? What is the title?

[Susen] "Dark and Deepest Red".

[Frank] "Dark and Deepest Red". Have you ever seen The Red Shoes movie from the '40s, the British movie by Michael Powell? It's so beautiful.

[Susen] I have not.

[Frank] When you talked about -- I wonder if this author has seen that movie too, because when you said the writing was lush and beautiful, the movie is sort of famous for its early use of Technicolor or early issues of Technicolor, and it's just a gorgeous movie to look at. So when you were talking about this book, I was thinking of those kind of vivid colors and it seems like the language evokes that which is sort of nice.

[Susen] Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm going to have to put that maybe on my list.

[Frank] Some things to watch.

[Susen] Yes.

[Frank] Michael Powell, The Red Shoes, a lot of dancing as you can imagine.

[Susen] Because that's what we do with red shoes.

[Frank] Yeah. It's such a tragic story though.

[Susen] It is, you know, I mean, the real story, you know, you dance to your death.

[Frank] I -- Well, that's -- spoiler alert. Don't tell anybody.

[Susen] I mean, I don't think it's a spoiler alert.

[Frank] I know, that's true. It is a famous old story. But you said LGBTQ representation and you also said the word Romani.

[Susen] Mm-hmm.

[Frank] Which I know this is not a -- I know I'm not as educated as I should be about it, but is it -- is also a descriptor for Gypsy which I -- which is not like a -- See, this is terrible because I'm using a word that I don't know. I know that is not considered correct to use anymore, correct?

[Susen] Yeah. Yes, yes.

[Frank] OK. Right.

[Susen] Yeah. Yeah, because that's a term that was given to them by other people. I mean, they --

[Frank] OK.

[Susen] They -- They're -- They call themselves the Romani.

[Frank] Right.

[Susen] And, you know, there's a long history of oppression in Europe behind, you know, that sort of ethnicity.

[Frank] Right. I knew. And thank you. So it seems to cover a wide range of issues.

[Susen] Yeah. And, you know, and they do it so well, so effortlessly and so seamlessly.

[Frank] Wow, OK. We're going to list these on our blog posts too, so people can access them. Cool. Any -- Do you have any more?

[Susen] I have so much more [inaudible] 2020.

[Frank] I don't know if I can handle anymore but it's fun.

[Susen] Well, too bad, Frank, you're going to have to sit and listen to me now.

[Frank] I know, right, it's impossible for me to stop -- not talk. But, please. Yes, next, thank you.

[Susen] OK. So, "Felix Ever After" by Kacen Callender, one of my favorites of this year that I've read so far, is a really, really thoughtful book that tackles the fluidity of identity. And Felix, who is our main character, he -- his plate is overflowing. He needs an art scholarship to Brown University to lessen the financial burden it will cost. He writes emails to his mother, which he never sends. And even though his father has supported his transitioned and his top surgery, his father still can't bring himself to say his name. And on top of all of this, you know, when an anonymous art installation at his school reveals his stat name, Felix decides to take control of the narrative and figure out who did it. So, with some sleuthing and some catfishing, what he finds are some secrets, some flawed characters, but mostly himself, black, queer, transgendered and more. And Callender does a really good job in depicting the messiness of being a teen, but also the joy and strength. And they were in a book that is really relatable that really, really flows well. You can't help but root for Felix and everything that he tries to do as he figures out who he is and who he wants to be in his life.

[Frank] Wow.

[Susen] Yeah. And this book has one of the most beautiful cover that I've seen in a very long time.

[Frank] "Felix Ever After"?

[Susen] "Felix Ever After".

[Frank] Oh, I love when the covers are beautiful.

[Susen] Yeah, yeah, it definitely draws your eyes. And the color of that cover is so, so beautiful. And I'm a sucker of colors.

[Frank] Wow, what a range of titles, dear. I'm very impressed as always with you.

[Susen] Thank you.

[Frank] Oh, we're going to do whiz bee. Some listeners might remember that we used to do a guessing game where the -- our guest would read a passage from a favorite book or a book that's on their mind and the host of the Librarian Is In would have to guess where -- what it is or what the title is and what the author is. And I know that you have one for me today. Let -- Can we do that now?

[Susen] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Frank] [Inaudible] I want to see if I still got it, baby. So, let's -- So please read me a passage and let me see if I know it.

[Susen] OK.

[Frank] I mean, well, I'll ask you questions after.

[Susen] Of course, OK. All right. You ready, Frank?

[Frank] Mm-hmm.

[Susen] OK. A very long time ago, there lived a fair young girl with her father and mother in a beautiful home in the city. She was as happy as she was good. And she had all that heart could wish. But by and by a sad day came and then many sad days. Her mother fell sick and died. And then sometime after, her father married again, where he said that his daughter must have someone to take care of her. After that, everything went wrong. The new mother was very cross and unkind, and she had daughters of her own who were as cross and unkind as herself. They were harsh and cruel to our fair young girl and made her do all the hard work about the house. She swept the floors and scrubbed the stairs and washed the dishes and cleaned the grades. While her sisters sat in the parlor lay asleep on their soft beds. They slept in fine rooms where there are long looking glasses in which they could see themselves from head to foot. But she was sent to lie in an old pile of straw in the attic where there was only one chair and no looking glass at all.

[Frank] Is that it?

[Susen] That is all I'm going to give you.

[Frank] Now, please -- All right. At first, I was like -- Well, Cinderella.

[Susen] It is Cinderella.

[Frank] It is Cinderella?

[Susen] It is Cinderella.

[Frank] Now is it what -- Is it a version of Cinderella or what?

[Susen] It is a version of Cinderella. I mean, it's the main -- it has the main story of the Cinderella but it is a different version from the Andersen one.

[Frank] So we -- That's what I was curious about. Is it a retelling of it? That's a current retelling, what is it?

[Susen] It is a retelling, it's not a current retelling.

[Frank] Oh, is it from a book of fairy tales or is it actually like a new novel retelling of this story?

[Susen] It is from a book of fairy tales.

[Frank] It sounds like a short story rather than a full-length novel.

[Susen] Yes.

[Frank] Do I have to guess who did it? Is it a famous one?

[Susen] I think the author is pretty well known.

[Frank] Is it for -- geared for children or young adults?

[Susen] It is geared towards children.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] I love it. It's funny I -- you should -- when you said earlier about you love fairy tales. So there you go. You're so sweet, because I do too. I was thinking of a couple. There's a just -- Anyway, there was a -- there's another story called -- Have you ever heard of a fairy tale called "Donkeyskin"?

[Susen] No, I have not

[Frank] It's so good. It reminded me of that too. Except I think the daughter actually marries the father. I mean, in a very strange way. But --

[Susen] OK.

[Frank] Yeah, I know. Or marries the king, but there's no -- it doesn't get too crazy. But -- And then I thought of the musical Into the Woods, which also tells, Stephen Sondheim musical, the story of Cinderella within many other fairy tales, which I love that movie and I've been wanting to see it again. But -- All right, so it's for children. Is it -- You said more recent. Am I going to really -- Go ahead. I'm sorry.

[Susen] Not recent.

[Frank] Oh.

[Susen] I would say early, late 1900, early 20th. Early --

[Frank] Is it a famous author that redid this?

[Susen] Yes.

[Frank] Really? How come I don't know this? Like -- Well, it's not the fairy books, is it?

[Susen] No, no.

[Frank] Do you know that series, they're from the Victorian era. I think "The Green Fairy Book, "The Blue Fairy Book".

[Susen] Yes, I remember those. I grew up reading those.

[Frank] Yeah, those Dover editions was publishing those. I used to love them too. And they were like staples in every children's room.

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] I have no -- I got Cinderella. It's enough. Who -- Well, who wrote it?

[Susen] Yeah, I was obsessed with those colored books, fairy tale books, but this one, I would call them.

[Frank] eah. But this is not that. What is -- Where is this telling of Cinderella from? I'm ready to know.

[Susen] Well, this is a retelling by James Baldwin.

[Frank] What?

[Susen] Yeah.

[Frank] I did not know he did that.

[Susen] Yeah, yeah. So I don't recall where I got this book. I probably got it at a -- probably at Strand. Yeah, so it came --

[Frank] Man, if people listening don't know, it's like the preeminent bookstore, really, I think in New York. I mean, that's -- I shouldn't say that because I love my local bookstore too, Three Lives. But Strand is famous for its huge -- it's a huge store. Anyway. Oh my god, so you've had it in Strand.

[Susen] Yeah, and I don't remember when but it must have been a while ago. So -- Yeah. It came out in 1895, which I don't -- I think it might actually be another James Baldwin.

[Frank] Oh.

[Susen] [Inaudible] yes, yes. Yes.

[Frank] You're totally confusing me.

[Susen] I was like [inaudible].

[Frank] I was like, wait, I was so excited that James Baldwin retold fairy tale. I mean, the James Baldwin. Obviously not the James --

[Susen] Obviously not, I honestly thought it was him. And then I was looking at the copyright right now and I was like, wait, that doesn't seem accurate. It seems a little earlier than his time. So, I was very into myself.

[Frank] You should.

[Susen] I did.

[Frank] You should [inaudible] yourself --

[Susen] I'm like, where is myself?

[Frank] Wow, all right. Thank you for getting me so excited and then letting me down because I --

[Susen] Oh, Frank, I let myself down right now. I was so disappointed too.

[Frank] So there's a James Baldwin. So you picked it up in Strand. And I guess you just -- you're into fairy tales. You wanted to see what this edition had to say --

[Susen] Yeah. And I saw the name and I was like, I didn't reckon -- I didn't realize that, you know, that I assumed wrong that he had written this.

[Frank] You mean all this time until now live on air you thought it was James Baldwin, the James Baldwin?

[Susen] I did.

[Frank] Oh my god.

[Susen] Oh my god. I'm so upset now.

[Frank] Well, our listeners get to witness firsthand a librarian librarianing herself.

[Susen] I did. Hey, I can take it [inaudible].

[Frank] Exactly. We don't know everything. And we're able to be schooled appropriately when needed.

[Susen] Yeah. And I just learned something new.

[Frank] Oh god. That is -- Well, it's very cool. Actually, I would have loved to have read his retelling of these stories. I mean, I was shocked because I had never heard of it. I was like, that is something I have not heard of him doing. So I was completely -- And I immediately thought of Rhonda too, like, my cohost to like -- just to see what she would think and her reaction. She would be like, wait a minute, Susen, nah ah. Excuse me. Oh my god, that was so exciting.

[Susen] That was for a hot minute.

[Frank] It was for a hot minute. Can I tell you quickly about a book I'm reading?

[Susen] Please, I would love to hear it.

[Frank] I don't want to -- You gave us some good recommendations. And I bet -- I wonder if you've read it because it's been recommended to me through listeners of this podcast actually through some of the books I've recommended was recommended back to me. And I came across and I thought I should read it. Have you read "On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous"?

[Susen] I have.

[Frank] By Ocean Vuong.

[Susen] Yes.

[Frank] What was your -- What's your reaction then?

[Susen] It is so deeply emotional.

[Frank] Yeah. I mean, you've read it.

[Susen] Yeah, it's so -- you really -- you know, when you're reading, you really have to just sit and sit in it. And the writing, you know, is really, really, really gorgeous. A story being told really hit you deep in all the feelings.

[Frank] Yeah, it's -- If -- Yeah, if others haven't -- listening haven't read it, "On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous" by Ocean Vuong is a -- it's a story about a lot of different things, a lot of different like important things like immigrants, war, sexuality. But like the story of this young boy and his mother and grandmother and they're immigration from Vietnam after the Vietnam War, but the mother and grandmother obviously have series experiences in the Vietnam War and they emigrate to Hartford, Connecticut. And it's a lot about mother-son relationship and the legacy of war and what that does to people. Like you said, his -- Ocean Vuong's writing, almost as the title indicates, is so gorgeous. And it's so poetic. And he writes so paradoxically, which is to say that he -- and poetically at the same time that he will make a statement about something and then immediately indicate an alternative truth to that statement that you think at first is not -- doesn't make sense. And then you realize it could be more truthful than the initial common sense truth you've read. And so his sort of gorgeous, poetic paradoxical writing is I found sometimes I had to -- I was pushed back from it because it was so intense. Like, I almost felt like I couldn't go there sometimes or he couldn't let me in sometimes. I mean, that's a very personal reaction and everyone has a different kind of reaction. But the writing was such that it was almost this tower of gorgeousness that I felt accessible through sometimes and inaccessible too. And I think you said it best Susen, we have to sit -- live in it, it's like sit in the language to really feel a part of it and to get it. I mean, I've read reviews that said people could only read it in short bursts, almost like poetry, because it was too much, was too intense. So, he's a very young writer and it's his first full novel. He had a book of poetry before but, yeah, so there I go, the intense books of Frank I -- that I tend to gravitate to. But, you know, I have to give this up to the listeners of this podcast because I had an email a while ago or a comment a while ago saying that I would be interested in reading this book based on the books I had already read. And, you know, they were right. It's definitely in my purview. And I occasionally try to jump out of that purview. But, I'm glad I read this one. So, "On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous" by Ocean Vuong. So -- And I knew you read it because you read everything. Where do you find the time?

[Susen] I don't sleep.

[Frank] Is that true? Do you really not? I mean, do you have insomnia?

[Susen] No, no, no. I'm a speed reader.

[Frank] Yeah.

[Susen] Well, I get to read books pretty quickly. And I'm also, you know, internally in a competition with myself.

[Frank] See, now this is getting into the truths of a person [inaudible]. So you just have to know. I mean, when I -- like I kept saying at the beginning when I saw you recommending books to patrons at Jefferson Market, there -- it was not with a sense of competition, obviously. It was a very gracious giving of titles, even though you have a little like little old school librarian about you that's -- that demands respect. More like you're decades younger than I am, I immediately like feel like, oh, Susen is in the house, because you're very organized too, which I actually loved because I have issues with that, as you well know. But I'm happy to defer to you. So, anyway, any final words for us, Susen? I think we should probably wrap it up. Did I cut you off with your 15,000 books you were going to recommend?

[Susen] No, no, not really. I [inaudible].

[Frank] You know what we can do, we can list -- we can put a couple of more titles on the podcast -- on the blog post. If you just send them to the producer, we can put them on the blog post for the podcast. How's that?

[Susen] Yeah, that sounds great.

[Frank] OK. OK, cool. So, anyway, thank you, Susen, so much for being here.

[Susen] Of course. Thanks for having me.

[Frank] Of course. And I look forward to visiting you over at the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library.

[Susen] Yeah, come on by. We are open in a limited capacity.

[Frank] Yeah. And also maybe even having you back at Jefferson Market on a Sunday sometime. We'll see.

[Susen] What, I will be there. I'm on a schedule, Frank. You just don't know it yet.

[Frank] All we can do is one day at a time. One day at a time. OK. Anyway, thanks, Susen, so much. And we will post all the young adult suggestions and recommendations that Susen had on the blog post. And thank you all so much for listening and see you next time. Oh, one more thing before we go. Rhonda will be back the next time and she and I are going to read our next book from the 125 books we love, the New York Public Library's list of books celebrating our 125th anniversary. And the next title is "And Then There Were None" by Agatha Christie. So if you haven't read it, read it. And if you have read it, join us when we discuss it. Thanks so much for listening.

[Narrator] Thanks for listening to the Librarian Is In, a podcast by the New York Public Library. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Google Play or send us an email at podcasts@nypl.org. For more information about the New York Public Library and our 125th anniversary, please visit nypl.org/125. We are produced by Christine Farrell. Your hosts are Frank Collerius and Rhonda Evans.